inductions

[pinktrance]

I have seen it said on here several times that it is not possible to go into a somnambulistic or deep hypnotic state using a pmr induction. Why is this?
Ive been thinking about this alot and havent fathomed it out yet.
Why does eye fixation/eye closure type induction seem to take people deeper, is it because of the speed in which it works it takes people by surprize more, which makes them belive more, which therefore makes them go deeper?
mmmmmmmm....................

[skip]

Pinktrance,

People can go into somnambulism or any other trance state, using virtually any 'type' induction.

The speed and depth at speed are dependant on several factors. The type of induction chosen, the skill of the hypnotist and the skill of the individual being hypnotized. The speed at which someone goes into a particular trance state, can also vary from time to time.

skip

[Merlin]

Pink,

As Skip points out, it's not a matter of induction type.
The issue is more often the understanding of the hypnotist.

Relaxation *alone* is nice, but it isn't hypnosis.
Many, many people spend 30-45 minutes telling their client 'relax', 'relax', etc.
There client gets relaxed but never hypnotised because relaxation isn't hypnosis.

Then, most of them never test to see if they have hypnosis (often they don't have hypnosis) and wonder why they don't get results.

Others just go with relaxation/suggestions. Relaxed people are suggestable, but far less so than people who are hypnotised.

This being a hypnosis forum, I preach hypnosis rather than relaxation.

[Shuriken]

Pink,

As Skip points out, it's not a matter of induction type.
The issue is more often the understanding of the hypnotist.

Relaxation *alone* is nice, but it isn't hypnosis.
Many, many people spend 30-45 minutes telling their client 'relax', 'relax', etc.
There client gets relaxed but never hypnotised because relaxation isn't hypnosis.

Then, most of them never test to see if they have hypnosis (often they don't have hypnosis) and wonder why they don't get results.

Others just go with relaxation/suggestions. Relaxed people are suggestable, but far less so than people who are hypnotised.

This being a hypnosis forum, I preach hypnosis rather than relaxation.

You know, I think people can learn more from this post alone, than from 90% of the questions asked on this board.

[pinktrance]

Hi Merlin
I was taught that trance ratification was not a good idea, because if the test didnt work it would completely ruin any faith the client had in you.
I use pmr`s and relaxing deepeners and i was led to belive that this was the way to go, maybe my ideas of what a hypnotic state is are different from yours.
mmmmm...........i need to think about this more and come back later.

[Merlin]

>I was taught that trance ratification was not a good idea, because if the test didnt work it would completely ruin any faith the client had in you.

If they are hypnotised, why would it be a problem?

>because if the test didnt work...

If the test doesn't work, then you don't have hypnosis.
Wouldn't you like to know at the beginning of the session, rather than fail overall?

>I use pmr`s and relaxing deepeners and i was led to belive that this was the way to go...

Good reason to avoid testing.
Get the money and run, even if you didn't succeed.

>maybe my ideas of what a hypnotic state is are different from yours.
Oh, I'm pretty sure of that.
But think about it, wouldn't you like to know how to be more successful?
Most people are too afraid of failure to test.

[pinktrance]

well, i think that if you have the client totally focussed on what it is that they want to change , and use suggestions suited to that particular person then it gets results, well from the little experience that i have had, i have had results using this method, i definately dont take the money and run, i am in fact very conciencous (even though i cant spell) and client centred, i spend alot of time creating scripts suited to a particular client using their modalities and worded to their way of speaking, and now you are saying that this is not hypnosis. I am confused to say the least. I think my clients are hypnotised when i have spent 40 minuets leading them into that state calmly and gently, they look hypnotised, they say they have been hypnotised when i bring them back up. Why have so many hypnotherapists used pmr and relaxation inductions and deepeners if they do not produce a hypnotic state?

[skip]

Pinky,

Dont sweat it, results are the REAL issue.

I was listening to a fellow this weekend named Raymond Grace. He is a healer and a down home country boy. I thought one of his points was significant, you might too.

He said, "What I do has not been proven scientifically. Some people think it ought to be. I suppose it is best that I didnt know I needed these proofs before I started. And my clients, when they get better, dont seem to care about it."

Think about it.

If what you are doing is working, and your clients are satisfied, then someone trying to tell you that you arent using hypnosis (according to their definition) or that you use the wrong induction method, or that you are too slow, or what not, is just arguing about the arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic. It doesnt mean a damn thing.

Recognize your own success.

skip

[Digger]

>maybe my ideas of what a hypnotic state is are different from yours.
Oh, I'm pretty sure of that.
But think about it, wouldn't you like to know how to be more successful?
Most people are too afraid of failure to test.[/QUOTE]


Dude are you trying to shake pinktrance's confidence or do you just not know what you are doing?

Who does this Merlin guy think he is, thats just nasty man.

digger

[pinktrance]

I really dont think much of someone implying that i take the money and run, even if something is not working for my client, the truth is completely opposite for me, i am like a terrier with a bone, if i latch on to a problem i wont let go untill we get to the bottom of it, and if the client cant afford it, i work for nothing but the love of my job, i find the right way of working that suits my client,and if it means they have their eyes wide open whilst jogging on the spot then that is what we do, i can feel if the therapy is working from the physical sensations that i seem to recieve whilst reading scripts to people, i also adlib alot of what i say, it seems to become apparent to me what needs to be said for the good of that particular person at the time of saying it. And, i always ask for guidance berore the session from a higher source, asking for help so that i can say whatever needs to be said for the good of the client, i also ask for protection for myself.

[Merlin]

Pinky,

It's your work. You may do it any way you choose.
If you are doing *changework* and you are successful, then *wonderful*
I'd be the last one to say your success is wrong and you need to change.

But the topic (as far as I can tell) is specific to somnambulism and hypnosis.
As I said, relaxation isn't hypnosis.
Yes you can hypnotise a relaxed person, but relaxation alone isn't hypnosis.
Maybe you're successful, many people are using relaxation.
If that's what you like, go for it

It's nothing to me what you do. I'm just answering the questions.
If you ever did hypnosis, maybe you'd find it thousands of times more effective than relaxation alone.
Maybe you'd find you've been doing hypnosis somehow along the way as you relax people. Then you can just agree with me.

Maybe you're totally successful and choose to think of anyone (me) who offers a possibility for you to improve and grow in skill as an *******.

Testing is also up to you.
I'm not in a position to require it of you or anyone else.

If you ever get brave, try it.
Tell the person "I'd like you to look into my eyes please" [so you can see their eye's pupils.] Say: "I'm going to count from one to three. On the count of three I will snap my fingers. When my fingers snap, the lights will go out, and it will be totally dark in this room. one... two... three... " [snap] If your client is hypnotised, their pupils will enlarge because it is now dark.

Don't think of this as a challenge to your skills, just a fun experiment.
It won't work with relaxation alone.

>And, i always ask for guidance berore the session from a higher source, asking for help so that i can say whatever needs to be said for the good of the client, i also ask for protection for myself.

That's not hypnosis either.
It might be good to do. It just isn't 'hypnosis'.

[digger]

"I'd be the last one to say your success is wrong and you need to change."

"If you ever did hypnosis, maybe you'd find it thousands of times more effective than relaxation alone."


Nice backhand.

But that puts the lie to the first one doesnt it?

This Merlin guys post is a complete insidious attempt at gutting pinktrance's confidence.

Am I the only one to spot it?

digger

[Merlin]

>This Merlin guys post is a complete insidious attempt at gutting pinktrance's confidence.

Thank you for your perspective 'digger' :)

[pinktrance]

I will have to agree to differ with you Merlin, i think that what i am doing is hypnosis, and it works, so, thats all that matters.
I dont remember saying that myself asking for guidance was hypnosis, i cant help but feel that you are having a dig at me with that comment. I dont agree with the way that you work at all, if someone told me to open my eyes during hypnosis and then tell me the room would go dark i would freak out!

Digger, that guy merlin is a she by the way, thanks for sticking up for me though;)

[Terry (existing)]

Pink Trance, I respect your attitude, but then, since it is also my own why not (G) but let me add a few suggestions if I may. Merlin has her methods, and they work for her, therefor it is foolish to argue with success. On the other hand, you have yours, so why should we argue with that either? Fact is, misunderstandings occur, and need to be ignored. I often find that ignoring a post which either compliments me or slangs me is the best method of keeping your cool. You see, I know I am the best, and it matters little if anyone disagrees with that estimate. My posts also are to the point, and though I don't choose to sugar coat them, they are an honest apraisal of what I read and am replying to. They therefor often compliment other posts which are softened so as not to hurt feelings. The difference is, I think replying to the question is more important than hurt feelings, and sometimes I am proved right by the private communications I get from various persons who respect the fact that I gave them straight talk. Now you asked a question, and Merlin replied as best she understood the question, non of us intend to insult another practitioner, and perhaps you should read between the lines. Becoming the best is always a matter of stretching yourself to improve your skills, and though I see no reason to test any more, since it is automatic for me to observe were the client is, I agree with Merlin in that testing IF YOU FEEL IT NESCESSARY, is something important to YOU, not the client.... Done sureptitiously it won't interfer with the client, and the one suggestion you got from Merlin shows this. Telling the client you wish to run a series of tests is no different from the same proceedure from you doctor, and what would you think of a doctor who was scared to run tests?
As for prayer, those who value it value it highly, and those who don't see no value in it at all, so it is hardly something to get upset about. We are all free to do or think as we wish thank God..... By the way, having the client open their eyes while in the trance state is also a sure sign of hypnosis even without the pupil test, which indicates a certain depth has been reached...Now it's a long time since I took a course, or even read a book, so perhaps I am under some misunderstanding regarding the words being used, but from what I remember, somnambulism is quite deep, and therefore not nescessary for most problems, even pain control. I wonder if you are under the impression that it is a requirement for success?

[Merlin]

Hi Pink,

I don't know you and have absolutely no interest in what you do.
Neither do I care what you call things.
But *occasionally* someone genuinely wants to learn something new as opposed to showing off what they think they know.
To them I share.

>if someone told me to open my eyes during hypnosis and then tell me the room would go dark i would freak out!

This just goes to show you aren't talking about the same thing.
You see, in hypnosis you have no ability to judge critically.
That's why hypnosis is so valuable.

>thanks for sticking up for me though

Sorry you felt the need.
.....

[Taff Master Flash]

seems like alot of love in this topic lol.
ok merlin you said about the test of
If you ever get brave, try it.
Tell the person "I'd like you to look into my eyes please" [so you can see their eye's pupils.] Say: "I'm going to count from one to three. On the count of three I will snap my fingers. When my fingers snap, the lights will go out, and it will be totally dark in this room. one... two... three... " [snap] If your client is hypnotised, their pupils will enlarge because it is now dark.

i just used that on a someone thats had loads of work donwe with me and infact they eyes stayed the same
mmm so they wasnt in deep hypnosis?
I mean this person goes into deep hypnosis and i do test for it.

[Merlin]

Flash,

There may be very deep 'trance', but that's not the same thing.
I don't know exactly what you do, but if the *critical faculty* is bypassed, then the subject cannot discern reality from suggestion.
If you say it's dark, then it's dark.
Their subconscious will respond by having the pupils widen.
It doesn't know otherwise.

I'm sure you can see the value of having this 'state' in your client.
It's available at any level of 'trance' from waking, to light, to medium, to deep, etc. because it isn't trance, it's different.

[pinktrance]

Hi Pink,

[QUOTE] I don't know you and have absolutely no interest in what you do.
Neither do I care what you call things.


Is there any need to say that? I thought we were just having a discussion.


But *occasionally* someone genuinely wants to learn something new


As I do, thats why i was asking the question at the start of this post.


as opposed to showing off what they think they know.


How was i showing off, i was openly admitting that i didnt understand something?


To them I share.


I have enjoyed this discussion actually, but it sounds like you have been getting personal as Don has removed a personal insult from your post.



Sorry you felt the need.



Who said i felt the need, i didnt ask for anyone to stick up for me, I was mearly being polite by saying thank you.


The point is that i am still confused because what you are saying totally contradicts every course i have been on, every book that i have read.

I still dont get why all the great hypnotherapists that write books and conduct courses and seminars say that hypnosis is possible through pmr`s and the like, but you say no. I respect that you may work differently, its what ever works for that individual that matters.

I will carry on working and learning and trying out new methods as i progress and get braver and more confident.

[Merlin]

Hi Pink,

>The point is that i am still confused

Sorry to hear that,

>because what you are saying totally contradicts every course i have been on.

though I'm not surprised.
That is the unfortunate state of this art.
and it's not likely to change soon.

>I still dont get why all the great hypnotherapists that write books and conduct courses and seminars say that hypnosis is possible through pmr`s and the like,

Most will regurgitate what they have learned in their training.
[This is not meant about you personally. I said most, not you.]
There's not much new in the books.
Mostly they repeat Erickson's beliefs.
[This is not meant about you personally. I said they, not you.]

>its what ever works for that individual that matters.

If one is doing changework, I agree.
[This is not meant about you personally. I said one, not you.]
It doesn't matter if one follows Freud, Jung, Satir, Perls, etc.
They also got good results and never tried for 'somnambulism'. You might not ever either.

But if one pushes a knitting needle through someone's arm and tells them it'll tickle and they don't have hypnosis, then they may not get good results.
[This is not meant about you personally. I said one and they, not you.]

If one tries removing an apendix while someone is entranced with a good book, one may not get the results one wants, or if one tells the person to stop bleeding where one is working, one also may still have a mess.
[This is not meant about you personally. I said one, not you.]

>I will carry on working and learning and trying out new methods as i progress and get braver and more confident.

and you'll be successful :)
Yes, I meant YOU (PINK). It's a complement.

>How was i showing off, i was openly admitting that i didnt understand something?

See, this is why people think things get insulting.

>I have enjoyed this discussion actually, but it sounds like you have been getting personal as Don has removed a personal insult from your post.

That's Don's interpretation.
I won' argue.
I'd rather have Don edit me than have readers think I'm being insulting.

I didn't say you were.

I said *someone*.
While you might assume it was written to you, I also keep in mind the many others who will read the post. The reader might know someone who fits that description.
It's not written to you at all.

Side note: nothing written is meant in any way negative towards Pinktrance. This is a generic exchange of ideas.

[Youaregettingsleepy]

Merlin, whose eyes are those in that picture at your medical disclaimer?

[pinktrance]

Thanks for your view Terry, i agree with most of what you said,and wouldnt it be boring if we all shared the same point of view.

Merlin works differently to me, and thats fine!
I still have alot to learn. And i think that one never stops learning.
I am keeping myself and my clients very safe by only working with uncomplicated straight forward cases that are simple to treat, i am not allowed to work with mental illness or depression until i have been a member of the society for so amny years, recieving supervision and compleating case studys etc, its all quiet controlled you know, here in england practicing under proper organisations is very safe and governed.



As for prayer, those who value it value it highly, and those who don't see no value in it at all, so it is hardly something to get upset about. We are all free to do or think as we wish thank God.....


who said anything about God?........and i wasnt getting unset about it.

[pinktrance]

sorry about that crap spelling, i dont get any better at it do i?
oh well you know what i mean and thats what matters

[parsa]

Anyone,

About the hypnosis test Merlin suggests (the telling them the room is dark and seeing their pupils dialate), what would they actually 'see'?

Physically it seems they would have to 'see' everything brighter since their pupils are dialated and the room is not dark, right?

[Merlin]

>Physically it seems they would have to 'see' everything brighter since their pupils are dialated and the room is not dark, right?

How do you define 'see'?
The eyes would let in more light.
The mind would interpret what is 'seen' as darkness.

[parsa]

Merlin,

I get what you mean, and have to say that it's really kewl :) , to be in a room full of light and see it dark.



Somehow I was thinking about this bypassing the critical judgment factor all wrong. And to be honest, I'm confused :) .



For the mind to respond to a suggestion it already has to know some kind of definition, for the lack of a better word. I mean like, the mind already has to know what darkness and light are.

What you are saying seems to mean that the mind does not decide on whether it's dark or not with the physical signal it's getting, rather it uses something else(which I have no clue as to what it is, maybe I could call it 'The Interpreter' :) ) and it is possible to screw around with that 'something'.

[skip]

parsa,

The eyes are responding to what the mind believes, irregardless of what the reality is.

That holds true all the time.

Korzibsky said it, "The map is not the territory."

skip

[Taff Master Flash]

mmm merlin i really dont understand what you mean?

Flash,

There may be very deep 'trance', but that's not the same thing.
I don't know exactly what you do, but if the *critical faculty* is bypassed, then the subject cannot discern reality from suggestion.
If you say it's dark, then it's dark.
Their subconscious will respond by having the pupils widen.
It doesn't know otherwise.

I'm sure you can see the value of having this 'state' in your client.
It's available at any level of 'trance' from waking, to light, to medium, to deep, etc. because it isn't trance, it's different.

because it isn't trance, it's different.????
i mean i test them to forget they name etc..etc.. isnt that trance?

[pinktrance]

Now everyone is totally confused

[Pdrive]

Just to back merlin up on this one,

Merlin (and I) believe hypnosis is the bypassing of the critical filter of the mind. This filter judges stimulas, comparing what we experence to our past experience (correct me if im wrong here merlin).

When this filter is bypassed (as in hypnosis) anything suggestion the hypnotist says is experienced by the subject, simply because the suggestion is going straight passed that filter, to the metaphorical part of the brain that *experiences the experience*. hence the pupil dialation.

Once the critical filter is bypassed, the person could have a pin stuck in their hand and feel a pleasant tickle - or an orgasmic one, depending on what is suggested. Or nothing at all.

get it?


Sincerely hoping my explaination is close to correct,

Pdrive

[Cassandra 8]

If I may interject here; we're just machines for believing things and moving these bags of bone and liquid into a position to breed. This has several interesting implications.

It is, for instance, very easy to make a child believe practically anything. This, through our gradually increasing skill at cognitive discrimination, becomes more difficult as our ability to maintain referential integrity develops.

This ability is the critical faculty.

If I hold out your palm and tell you your favourite singer is playing a gig upon it you'll think I'm crazy.

But with no critical faculty to tell you what's real and what isn't, you can't do that. But then again, wouldn't it be fun to see your favourite singer perform in minature on the palm of your hand? Your mind eagerly arranges the gig that has now become your reality for a while.

Sinister, eh?

Boo!

Mwuahahah!

[Guest]

mmm merlin i really dont understand what you mean?

> I'm sure you can see the value of having this 'state' in your client.
> It's available at any level of 'trance' from waking, to light, to medium, to >deep, etc. because it isn't trance, it's different.

because it isn't trance, it's different.????
i mean i test them to forget they name etc..etc.. isnt that trance? There are many different kinds of trance. Not all trance is hypnosis, but all hypnosis is trance.

[Merlin]

>For the mind to respond to a suggestion it already has to know some kind of definition.

Quite true. If I tell your subconscious Phenylalechem, what'll it do?

>What you are saying seems to mean that the mind does not decide on whether it's dark or not with the physical signal it's getting, rather it uses something else(which I have no clue as to what it is, maybe I could call it 'The Interpreter' ) and it is possible to screw around with that 'something'.

Or, maybe the physical signal can be overridden by suggestion.

[pinktrance]

I thought that even if you bypass the conscious critical faculty suggestions will only work that fit with that persons belief system. So if you try and tell someone that the sky is green, even if they are in a deep state of hypnosis their belief system will say "oh no it isnt", and probably bring them out of hypnosis.

[Cassandra 8]

I thought that even if you bypass the conscious critical faculty suggestions will only work that fit with that persons belief system. So if you try and tell someone that the sky is green, even if they are in a deep state of hypnosis their belief system will say "oh no it isnt", and probably bring them out of hypnosis.Ah, I see the confusion here.

Think of hypnosis (from the greek: hypnos meaning "sleep") as putting your critical faculty to sleep, or at least making it nice and dowsy and unobservant.

In that state, and you can be fully "awake" in all other respects; you simply don't have the ability to tell truth from fiction. This has a couple of intersting aspects to it:

Firstly, it's the reason we have emotional responses to even the most obvious drama or film. I remember my heart pounding watching Marty McFly try to connect the cables before the storm came at the climax of Back to the Future, and feeling itchy during Arachnophobia.

Good stories suppress the critical faculty and allow us to "live" the story a little. This is why the first slot in an ad break is considerably more expensive than the last. Those who get into a TV drama are technically in very light hypnosis.

Secondly, it's the nature of the fiction that's important. Unless you have some deep problem with green skies (maybe you're part of a cult that prophesizes doom starting with such a colour!) then you'll have no way of figuring out that it isn't green.

The part of the mind the others look to when they think they smell bullsh*t is metaphorically snoring peacefully, staring out of the window absent-mindedly, or having a nice cup of tea, in accordance with the level of hypnosis you've induced. What you really want is for the critical faculty to be completely unresponsive on the floor!

The rest of the mind still processes and accepts the new belief bacause it can't not do so. The reason is simple:

There's a very clear evolutionary advantage to still being able to process information in this way when the Critical Faculty is absent or too busy to make a judgement. It might mean your survival.

The rest of your mind isn't a dumb beast, however. It thinks. That's why you can still discern personal "good" from "bad" and take the decision to wake the critical faculty if you're presented with a belief that needs its attention.

There are so many classes of induction because there are so many ways of inducing sleep within the critical faculty. My own method is based on a completely different model of mind and engages the critical faculty to reconfigure it to allow in specific new beliefs, for instance.

Some rapid inductions and a lot of NLP exploit the idea that the critical faculty has a limited capacity by giving it so much to do that any extra information gets processed without being tested for sense.

Does that help?

[teadaze]

I thought that even if you bypass the conscious critical faculty suggestions will only work that fit with that persons belief system. So if you try and tell someone that the sky is green, even if they are in a deep state of hypnosis their belief system will say "oh no it isnt", and probably bring them out of hypnosis.


Thats what I thought....but i guess turning a light off doesn't contradict someone's belief system too much.

[skip]

Hi Pink,

If you want to define hypnosis, as some people do, including myself, as bypassing the critical factor AND establishing selective thinking, then when someone is hypnotized they are open to new and fresh ideas that are outside of their normal beliefs, values, etc. They can fully examine those ideas uncritically, there is no judgement, because the critical factor is bypassed. Many people, including myself, use somnambulism or deeper, and "hypnosis" interchangably, while for others "hypnosis" has a much broader definition.

Erickson said, "Hypnosis potentiates ..." I like that word potentiates. It says a lot in a relatively short cluster of letters.

At any rate, an individual, while in hypnosis, as defined, can and will operate in realities, that open them to completely new avenues of thought. Now there are levels of trance, where the critical factor isnt quite bypassed, and people will still make some judgements, and much good work can still be done that isnt posible in the waking trance state. It can get confusing because many people include this type of trance as hypnosis, while others dont. And it can be still more confusing because really skilled people can, while the client is in the waking state, still slip things past the critical factor, and accomplish change work.

But if you have hypnosis, as defined, you dont get into those issues.

That doesnt mean that later, after you have done some changework, and the individual is no longer hypnotized, they wont disregard suggestions they acepted under hypnosis, because there was a failure to take into account violations of beliefs and values, or secondary gains.

So when you are talking to someone, and you say hypnosis, meaning bypass the critical factor, establish selective thinking, but that person understands, the critical factor still has just a bit of a toe hold, both of you will be speaking of a trance that potentiates, but you will not be speaking the same language when it comes to other issues and capabilities.

Merlin suggests that you test for what she calls somnambulism, by which she means, 'bypassed critical factor and established selective thinking'. And I think that is a good idea, if establishing a specific trance state is important to you. In my view sometimes it is, sometimes it isnt. If I am getting the responses I want, I am relatively unconcerned with the depth of trance. BUT assuming you want somnambulism, testing is an excellent idea.

When talking about testing tho, I always make tests up in such a way that they give me the information I want, and the client cannot possibly fail them. Because if the client senses that they have 'failed' they can begin to doubt the process, and neither of us need that. Since I am in total control of the test, I can make it anything I want to as long as It meets my criteria. It must give me the information I want, and at the same time ensure the success of the client.

If I wanted to check pupil dialation, as a method of determining if the critical factor has been bypassed, I would take some naturally occurring phenomena and incorporate it into something I was doing. Erickson did this type of thing a lot and IMO it is the genius of his approach. I might, as Merlin suggests, use the lights. I would say I am going to dim the lights, and I would reach for the dimmer switch that they have seen me use before, and I would pretend to dim the lights, and say "There now, that's better.", and notice their pupils. Or more likely, I would have them, in a metaphorical journey, go from brightly lit area, to a dark one, and notice. In this way I have made my test, gotten my results, and no one is aware I have made a test, not even objective observers. The client cannot possibly believe they have failed a test they didnt know they were involved in, and I have my results.


In this same way if I wanted age regression, I wouldnt say, "Now I am going to regress you to age 5 ... bla bla bla." I would ask, "Do you remember when you first went to school? Do you recall your first day? What did it feel like to be walking down that hallway looking for your room, and wondering, as one does wonder, about this new adventure you are embarking on. This process of learning, this new step in your development. And this business of writing , so many things to remember, how to form an A, the difference between an O and a Q. And when you formed the letter A, you didnt realize it then, but you made a mental image of the A, and then tried to duplicate it. And soon you went on to words, and sentences, all the time building and growing." (I am talking on several levels here, one is the age regression, another is the ambiguity of whether I am talking about the first day of school, or the experience of using hypnosis, another is establishing an early learning set, another is generating once again that sense of curiosity and anticipation. "Whew I can really work hard in one or two simple(?) sentences.", he said as he pats himself on the back. ;)

Think about what you want them to do, and in the hypnotic state, ask them to do something that you know they can already do, that will result in their doing internally what you wanted.

Other times you want to make your client aware of being tested, so they will KNOW consciously, they have been hypnotized. Those tests are called 'convincers'. When I choose to do this with a client, I always, again, make sure that the client cannot fail. First I make sure they have passed sufficent tests they werent aware of, so that I know they will succeed. But usually I dont do convincer tests, I just take advantage of their normal body adjusting and reorienting when they 'awaken', as well as the highly suggestable state they are still in, by saying, "Now readjust yourself mentally and physically back into the normak waking state from the hypnotic state, thats it (as they stretch and adjust) ... Did you ... realize that you were hypnotized?"

hope that helps,

skip

[Merlin]

>I thought that even if you bypass the conscious critical faculty suggestions will only work that fit with that persons belief system.

If that were true, there wouldn't be a need for hypnosis.
Just tell the person how they should be, and presto... instant change.

>So if you try and tell someone that the sky is green, even if they are in a deep state of hypnosis their belief system will say "oh no it isnt", and probably bring them out of hypnosis.

That's often true of relaxation therapy.

[parsa]

Skip,
>The eyes are responding to what the mind believes, irregardless of what the reality is.
I think I can understand that. I guess what I was trying to ask was that how does the mind believe one thing and not the other.
In other words I was trying to visualize some sort of mechanism that happens when you hypnotize someone.

I stated a theory which is probably wrong, Merlin suggested another. Anyway, I guess if I want to learn about hypnosis I'd better start with using it and then get into these details.

Thanks guys.

[skip]

Parsa,

Psychology is a profession where the theoretical psychologists refuse to talk to the practioners, and vice versa.

Perhaps there could be a universal theory among the theoretical psychologists about what is happening, but the truth is, we dont really know.

We can describe what it appears to be. We can describe what appears to be happening. We can even describe certain characteristics, and we can differentiate between what can be done and what cant. But we dont know what is going on.

You ask, "How does the mind believe one thing and not the other ...?" I presume you mean, "How does it accept what is said over the evidence of the senses?"

Hypnosis is a turning inward, to an internal experience. External stimulis effects are minimized, and internal experience becomes everything. Subjects experience such things as tunnel vision, fogging, a feeling of drifting off. The outside world just sort of goes away somewhere, while you are absorbed in what you are experiencing from within. Very similar to a deeply absorbing daydream.

When these conditions are met, a person with whom you are in rapport, can tell you something, and the validity, of it, will simply be accepted, and become part of the internal experience you are having. This is how you can have positive and negative hallucinations. (see things that arent there and fail to see things that are there, hear or fail to hear sounds, feel or fail to feel various things, and so on.)

Hypnosis takes adantage of the fact that it is your mind that creates all your experiences. A cut on your hand would not be felt as pain unless your mind decides it is pain. Your mind not only decides it is pain, but also how much, and for how long, and all this has very little to do with the actual cut. If your mind believes you are hurting, you will hurt, irregardless of whether or not you have actually been physically damaged.

When the critical factor, whatever that is, is bypassed, your mind will accept what it is told, and it will make that your reality, just as it now accepts input from your senses and makes that your reality. It really doesnt care how it gets the information.

That is what makes hypnosis, and or NLP such powerful tools for generating and creating the life you want. The mind doesnt care where it gets the information, it doesnt care if it is true or not, it just takes the information and makes it your reality.

"Make it so, Number One." Capt Jean Luke Picard to Commander Riker.

skip

[pinktrance]

Thanks Skip,you answered just about every question i had building up in my head including the one at the begining of this post. That puts things clear in my mind.
thanks pink