Huna and the Martial Arts

[rdonovan1]

I was just wondering if anyone might happen to know as to how Huna and concepts like Zen in the martial arts might be similar and different.

I am just curious because I have been into the martial arts for a long time and lately I have been trying to study Ninjutsu.

I can't say that I know all that much about Huna as the martial arts are more my mainstay, but from what I have read so far about Huna and what I have been taught by Ross Jeffries about it as well as what I have studied relating to the martial arts there does seem to be a relation between the two and like Ross once pointed out the better that you get at this type of stuff then the better your success will be in other areas.

I must admit that I do kind of like what Zen teaches and attempting to argue with many of the ancient philosophies surrounding the martial arts is pretty much futile because much of it (especially Ninjutsu) is over 2,000 years old and is pretty well established.

They do however have a lot of good metaphors which in many ways tend to resemble metaphors used in NLP and Hypnosis.

Probably one of the most classic ones which is true is 'Ambition without knowledge is like a boat on dry land'.

That one is a classic from the martial arts and it is very, very accurate.

[Poodle]

We don't talk about "Don't Call Me Paul Ross Jeffries" around here if you are wondering why noone has answered your post so if you want any information, please let us know that you have had proper training instead of a few days with a PUA that uses NLP for totally the wrong reasons.

Huna is a way of life, a good life with respect for and a balance of male and female energy. This obviously takes you out of the Huna concept unless you are willing to give up Jeffries' teachings. Huna also deals with three minds. In Huna we believe the sexes were separated early in evolution and only when Self rises high enough to become a High Self, are the two halves (male and female) reuinted to make a complete spirit.

The only minute thing I can find that may be similar to anything in China or Japan is forgiveness. So, I say to you: "Hala Hala". IMHO you probably have done Ino.

Pood :(

[rdonovan1]

I can't say that I really understand Huna. Much of what I have learned that even comes close to Huna is what I have learned from Ross, Mystery, David DeAngelo, the martial arts (particularly Ninjutsu), and of course all of my interactions that I have had with women over the years.

When it comes to women, women have been my greatest teacher over the years and none has been a better teacher than a girl that I once knew in 1987.

The only thing that Ross is really good for in my opinion is food for thought and that is all. Anything else is best learned elsewhere.

[Don]

The only thing that Ross is really good for in my opinion is food for thought and that is all.


I agree.

I believe it's called "junk food."

[rdonovan1]

If you ever get a chance you might want to check out a book called 'Personality Selling'. It is a really good book and it is all about NLP and the enneagram.

[Poodle]

I have learned some tricks from "Don't Call Me Paul". and I'm not referring to tricks on how to be a PUA, He really is a good NLPer. He has just chosen a path that all of us hate. I wonder, really wonder, how much money there would be in courses "Anti-SS For Women"?

It seems our new poster only went to him for self-confidence and self-esteem. That is sad IMO because for probably the same money he could have had a "real" NLP course and gained much, much more than self-confidence and self-esteem.

Pood :)

[rdonovan1]

I have learned some tricks from "Don't Call Me Paul". and I'm not referring to tricks on how to be a PUA, He really is a good NLPer. He has just chosen a path that all of us hate. I wonder, really wonder, how much money there would be in courses "Anti-SS For Women"?

It seems our new poster only went to him for self-confidence and self-esteem. That is sad IMO because for probably the same money he could have had a "real" NLP course and gained much, much more than self-confidence and self-esteem.

Pood :)

The martial arts is good for self confidence and self esteem and it has nothing to do with Ross at all.

The martial arts has been around for a lot longer than Ross, NLP or even Huna.

I am not putting down Huna at all as it does seem to be pretty interesting. All I am saying is that I don't fully understand it all.

From what little that I know about Huna it does in a way seem to be similar to the martial arts. In the martial arts a concept called zen which is similar to Huna and to the Swish pattern has been in place for a long time and was developed by buddist monks a long time ago as a way to gain enlightenment.

I have had some training in Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido in the past, but that has never really been my main interest at all. My main interest is and for a long time has been in the realm of ninjutsu and that is an art that you don't want to play with because it is combat orientated and it is over 2000 years old.

Unlike Karate, Judo, and even Kung Fu there is no tournaments for ninjutsu at all. Playing with ninjutsu is kind of akin to playing with the special forces as both are very deadly.

While I was out on the road as an over the road truck driver I had the ability to invest in a complete home study black belt course in the art of ninjutsu which basically takes you all the way from white belt to first degree black belt in the art.

It is published by Shihan Richard Van Donk and is licensed by Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi. Dr. Hatsumi is the 34th Grandmaster of Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu.

One of the first americans to ever have been accepted for study and to receive his black belt in the art is a guy by the name of Stephen K. Hayes.

Some people might recognize his name as he was very big in the 1980's and was on the cover of a lot of magazines like Black Belt Magazine on more than one occasion.

Since the time that I have gotten that black belt home study course I have also had to opportunity to get some stuff relating to aikido, Goju Ryu Karate, and a complete home study ninjutsu course put out by Robert Bussey who is considered to be the king of combat in the art of ninjutsu.

If you ever get a chance to study any of the history of the martial arts and of ninjutsu I think that you just might like it and given the fact that now days with our society becoming much more violent it is probably a good idea to learn some form of self defense.

The form of martial arts that most police officers know and use in their line of work is called Kenpo Karate and it was developed by a man named Ed Parker who is considered one of the best in the martial arts at least when it comes to Kenpo Karate.

The older forms of Karate generally came from Okinawa and were for the most part developed after the towns that they originated in. At that time there really was not much of an option for the developers of Karate because during those times it was the only way that they could protect themselves from the ruling class samurai.

[Don]

The martial arts is good for self confidence and self esteem and it has nothing to do with Ross at all.

The martial arts has been around for a lot longer than Ross, NLP or even Huna.

I am not putting down Huna at all as it does seem to be pretty interesting. All I am saying is that I don't fully understand it all.

<sigh> Then you really shouldn't be making dogmatic statements then, should you?

Depending upon the particular martial art, Huna--or what became identified as Huna--is at least as old as them and far older than many of them.

From what little that I know about Huna it does in a way seem to be similar to the martial arts. In the martial arts a concept called zen which is similar to Huna and to the Swish pattern has been in place for a long time and was developed by buddist monks a long time ago as a way to gain enlightenment.

Martial arts began in a wide variety of ways. Most of the currently popular ones began in India, moved to China and Tibet, and from there to Japan, Okinawa, and Korea. Others are native to other countries such as Savate from France, and other styles from Brazil.

Zen has nothing to do with martial arts per se, although some martial arts schools have adopted it. For example, the philosophies behind Kung Fu are more closely related to Taoism than to Buddhism.

Huna has a wide variety of techniques and philosophies. There is a native Hawaiian martial art known as Lua. While harmonious with Huna, it is not the same nor is it dependent upon it.


I have had some training in Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido in the past, but that has never really been my main interest at all. My main interest is and for a long time has been in the realm of ninjutsu and that is an art that you don't want to play with because it is combat orientated and it is over 2000 years old.

Not even close. The art is only about 800 years old. See
http://www.resource-media.com/arts/Ninjitsu/ninjitsu.html

While I was out on the road as an over the road truck driver I had the ability to invest in a complete home study black belt course in the art of ninjutsu which basically takes you all the way from white belt to first degree black belt in the art.

I sounds to me like you've learned Ninjutsu about as well, and about the same way, as you've learned NLP. Not very well. You can't learn martial arts of any kind through home study. You might be able to improve your skills by learning additional techniques after you've mastered the basics (probably 3-5+ years of weekly or more often in-person training).

If you ever get a chance to study any of the history of the martial arts and of ninjutsu I think that you just might like it and given the fact that now days with our society becoming much more violent it is probably a good idea to learn some form of self defense.

Indeed, I hope you do actually learn some of the history of martial arts as it's fascinating.

The form of martial arts that most police officers know and use in their line of work is called Kenpo Karate and it was developed by a man named Ed Parker who is considered one of the best in the martial arts at least when it comes to Kenpo Karate.

Few police officers study Kenpo. Kenpo is older than Parker. Parker was introduced to Kenpo by Frank Chow in Hawaii. Today, most police are studying Krav Maga, a new martial art developed in Israel.

Bruce Lee originally practiced Wing Chun Kung Fu, but after a match that lasted for a long time, Lee felt he had not effectively used it. As a result, he developed Jeet Kune Do, following his philosophy "Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it." That is close to the spirit of Krav Maga which is oriented toward rapid crowd control and self defense.

I wrote elsewhere that I admire your energy and interest, but please understand that there are some things that can't be learned from books. Martial arts are one such thing that can't be learned from books or at-home courses. Other things that can't be learned at home are NLP and hypnotherapy. All three can be advanced once you have mastered the basics, but those must be learned in person.

Please, harness your desire and get some training!

[rdonovan1]

<sigh> Then you really shouldn't be making dogmatic statements then, should you?

Depending upon the particular martial art, Huna--or what became identified as Huna--is at least as old as them and far older than many of them.



Martial arts began in a wide variety of ways. Most of the currently popular ones began in India, moved to China and Tibet, and from there to Japan, Okinawa, and Korea. Others are native to other countries such as Savate from France, and other styles from Brazil.

Zen has nothing to do with martial arts per se, although some martial arts schools have adopted it. For example, the philosophies behind Kung Fu are more closely related to Taoism than to Buddhism.

Huna has a wide variety of techniques and philosophies. There is a native Hawaiian martial art known as Lua. While harmonious with Huna, it is not the same nor is it dependent upon it.




Not even close. The art is only about 800 years old. See
http://www.resource-media.com/arts/Ninjitsu/ninjitsu.html



I sounds to me like you've learned Ninjutsu about as well, and about the same way, as you've learned NLP. Not very well. You can't learn martial arts of any kind through home study. You might be able to improve your skills by learning additional techniques after you've mastered the basics (probably 3-5+ years of weekly or more often in-person training).



Indeed, I hope you do actually learn some of the history of martial arts as it's fascinating.



Few police officers study Kenpo. Kenpo is older than Parker. Parker was introduced to Kenpo by Frank Chow in Hawaii. Today, most police are studying Krav Maga, a new martial art developed in Israel.

Bruce Lee originally practiced Wing Chun Kung Fu, but after a match that lasted for a long time, Lee felt he had not effectively used it. As a result, he developed Jeet Kune Do, following his philosophy "Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it." That is close to the spirit of Krav Maga which is oriented toward rapid crowd control and self defense.

I wrote elsewhere that I admire your energy and interest, but please understand that there are some things that can't be learned from books. Martial arts are one such thing that can't be learned from books or at-home courses. Other things that can't be learned at home are NLP and hypnotherapy. All three can be advanced once you have mastered the basics, but those must be learned in person.

Please, harness your desire and get some training!


I'm not sure as to what kind of training you have had with the martial arts, but apparently it does have some flaws in it because some of what you talk about is very skewed and is not what is really true in the real martial arts.

I have had formal training in Tae kwon Do and in Hapkido and I have been told by one of my instructors that I am actually better than I tend to give myself credit for.

If you believe that Ninjutsu is only 800 years old, then you definitely don't know anything about it as the information that I have comes directly from Japan and is certified by Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi and anyone who chooses to argue with him on the subject is foolish because he is the Grandmaster and is recognized that way in Japan.

Hatsumi is whether anyone likes it or not a certified expert on the subject of Ninjutsu and arguing about it will not prove a thing.

Some sections of Ninjustsu are 800 years old, but Ninjutsu itself is far older than that.

Taking home study courses may not be the best, but it is entirely doable and in fact some of the most notable people in the United States are self taught.

One prime example is Abraham Lincoln. While even though that does not relate to the martial arts he was still self taught.

Even many of the captains of industry like Bill Gates are self taught. What is around your waist or where you went to school at really does not matter.

What matters the most is as to whether you know the material or not. I admit that I may not know everything and I never will proclaim to know everything either, but at least I am not afraid to go and find out that in which I do not know nor am I afraid to try and fail if need be as that is the way that companies like Microsoft, Wal-Mart and most of the other businesses got started.

Their leaders had a vision and none of them were detered by people who were negative in thinking at all. Negative thinking in NLP is as you should know called a limiting belief. In psychology they call it a self defeating behavior.

Whether you realize it or even want to admit it or not I do know more that you seem to think I do because I have taken the time to go and find out and I have been around the block out in real life testing what works and what doesn't.

Reading some book or even taking some class and then thinking that you know everything without going out into the real world and trying it out is crazy and that is something that I don't do.

I take what I learn and then I go out into the real world to try to find out as to what works and what does not work and that is what NLP is all about.

NLP is very, very subjective and while you can learn the theories in the class room you can only really learn it out in the real world and that is something that Bandler himself has pointed out time and time again to all those who were listening and paying attention to what he is saying.

He has even taught psychologists a thing or two. One of the psychologists that he taught was on an airplane with him as he was on his way to an NLP seminar and while they were on the plane they started to get talking about what NLP actually was about.

If you have missed that part, then I would suggest that you go and check out the book in which Bandler talks about it as it was written by Bandler himself.

If I had the time and the money then I would love to take some formal classes on the subject, and hopefully I eventually will be able to but in the mean time all that I can do is to work with what I do have and to keep practicing what I learn out in the real world by as much as I possibly can.

[Poodle]

all powerful here. Can you PLEASE just push the button. I'm sure you know the one I mean.

I can't handle all this "Richard said" as we obviously could not recognize Richard if he were next in line with us BECAUSE he has not been met yet. No wonder he gets crankey.

[rdonovan1]

I guess that maybe like everything else the Japanese and all of the people who study or practice the martial arts really don't know what they are talking about or doing and that must apparently go for the masters themselves.

Perhaps what we all need to do is to just concede and to give in to what psychology says and to forget anything else as it is plainly obvious that anyone other than psychologists and psychiatrists just really don't know what they are talking about and that only the psychologists and psychiatrists really know what they are talking about as that is what they want anyways.

Who are we to think that anything other than psychology or psychiatry could even remotely know what they are talking about. I guess if you really think about it at least in psychological and psychiatric terms believing in things like NLP, hypnosis, the Huna, martial arts, business or even women just kind of makes us all kind of on the schizophrenic side and in need of severe medication just like the psychologists and psychiatrists say that we should all be on.

According to them your thoughts, feelings, beliefs and opinions are nothing but delusions that should be treated with drugs. That is at least what they say and perhaps it is wrong for us to disagree with them.

Bandler in their opinion is nothing but a loose cannon that needs to be silenced because they tend to see Bandler and NLP as nothing but a complete eyesore and I'm pretty sure that if Bandler were to check himself into a psychiatric hospital he would never get out, because they would tell him that his is nothing but a complete lunatic and psychopath and perhaps it was that perception of him and Grinder that lead to both of them being kicked out of the University of California, Santa Cruz because they did not believe in what either Bandler or Grinder were doing nor did they feel that they really were reprsenting the school in any kind of positive way.

To the school Bandler and Grinder were basically nothing but pains in the butt's.

[Poodle]

"Bandler in their opinion is nothing but a loose cannon that needs to be silenced because they tend to see Bandler and NLP as nothing but a complete eyesore and I'm pretty sure that if Bandler were to check himself into a psychiatric hospital he would never get out, because they would tell him that his is nothing but a complete lunatic and psychopath and perhaps it was that perception of him and Grinder that lead to both of them being kicked out of the University of California, Santa Cruz because they did not believe in what either Bandler or Grinder were doing nor did they feel that they really were reprsenting the school in any kind of positive way.

To the school Bandler and Grinder were basically nothing but pains in the butt's.[/quote]"

May I ask your exact sources please. I want names, addresses and phone numbers. It was interesting at Trainer's Training for NLP WITH RICHARD BANDLER that some psychologists were present and questioned him about some of these ill-formed remarks. Richard had them eating out of his hand within one minute and he did a lot of back-peddeling quickly.

Learn your lesson now and learn it well. We work WITH THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY, NOT AGAINST IT. NLP is mandated for certain medical degrees at universities in England. 'nuff said? I'm sorry to inform you that Richard is a very kind older man that has a twinkle in his eyes. He leads a very normal life in the country in England with his wife who is a Doctor.

It's obvious that people like you are giving NLP a bad rap by mis-stating facts and observations from books.

Richard was in a number of psychiatric institutions in the State of California with Virginia Satir where he observed and helped many people. He later went alone. He was never held as an "inmate". I believe it was under the Clinton Administration that these places were closed and the people just dumped on the street to fend for themselves.

Please be quiet until you know what you are talking about. Deal or no deal?

[Don]

I really don't understand why you are being so incredibly obtuse.

NOBODY has said that home study is bad. What I have said is that for certain things, training IN PERSON is necessary.

You can read all you want to and do all the home study you want to on plumbing, but to become a licensed, professional plumber you have to go through training and monitoring during an apprentice period. The same is true for medicine. The same is true for martial arts. The same is true for hypnotherapy. The same is true for massage. The same is true for NLP.

Yes, Lincoln was self taught. Do you really think you could become a professional, lawyer, licensed by a state bar, to practice law as a result of home study? If so, you'd better think again. You'd be thrown in jail by real lawyers so fast you wouldn't know what hit you. So would Lincoln if he tried to practice law today without graduating from school and passing the bar. Lincoln practice law over 150 years ago. Do you really think that the study and practice of law hasn't changed during that time? If so, you'd better think again.

What I wrote about was absolutely correct, and you have posted nothing to prove otherwise. But you see, when I give lectures, I begin by posting the words, "Think For Yourself. Question Authority." If one of my teachers said "Ninjitsu is over 2,000 years old," my response would be, "Yes, Sensei." However, I would do my own research. If you actually did research you would find that there is NO evidence that the practice of Ninjitusu is older than about 800 years. There were various practices that were folded into Ninjitsu that are undoubtedly older, but they were parts of older systems.

FYI, the system of martial arts I studied with was the Sil Lum School of Kung Fu, run by Sifu Douglas Wong, brother of the publisher of "Kung Fu" magazine. We studied five family style kung fu, one of the oldest of the Asian martial arts. Perhaps the only one older was five animals style which, when I was practicing, was still being taught in Los Angeles by Grandmaster Ark Yuey Wong, the first person to teach kung fu to non-Asians.

You write, "What matters the most is as to whether you know the material or not."

That's true. And when, someday, you decide you want to get training in NLP you'll learn that there are different levels of actually knowing the material. You'll discover that your trainer will actually be teaching directly to your unconscious mind and you will understand things on levels that you will never get from reading about NLP.

You talk about Wal-Mart. The founder of Walmart graduated from the University of Missouri. He then spent a year-and-a-half working and learning at a J.C. Penny's in Iowa. He then became a Ben Franklin franchisee and spent three years running a store in Arkansas. That's a college education plus 4.5 years in specific training before he started the store that became the start of Wal-Mart. He wasn't self-educated. He didn't take a Learn Business at Home course.

My friend, I admire your energy. The problem is, you think you know more than you do. Worse, instead of looking to others who do know more for guidance, you think you know better than they. For everything I know, there are probably a million things I don't know. One thing I've learned, though, is that when I don't know something I look for advice from people who do.

You have made up your mind as to what really is--that's a limiting decision. You refuse to take the advice of others who know more than you and I combined. That's another limiting decision.

Reading some books and going out into the world to test it won't help you when you're simply wrong. When you have a closed mind to what is necessary to change and improve. So if you think you can read a few books and become an NLP pro, good luck! I can guarantee that real NLP practitioners will stand up to your lack of knowledge, understanding, and incompetence when you try to practice, not because they want to force you to go to a training, but because they want to support what they're doing by exposing the charlatans.

You write you don't have the time or money. Those are limiting decisions. As a teacher of mine said long before B&G codified NLP, "You'll never find the time, you have to make the time." As to not having the money, if you really want to learn NLP...prove it! Start packing lunches instead of buying them. Stop going to movies and paying for cable TV. Get another part time job. Do those simple things and within three months you'd have enough money to get training.

Dude, you can't BS someone who can BS better than you.:D

[rdonovan1]

I really don't understand why you are being so incredibly obtuse.

NOBODY has said that home study is bad. What I have said is that for certain things, training IN PERSON is necessary.

You can read all you want to and do all the home study you want to on plumbing, but to become a licensed, professional plumber you have to go through training and monitoring during an apprentice period. The same is true for medicine. The same is true for martial arts. The same is true for hypnotherapy. The same is true for massage. The same is true for NLP.

Yes, Lincoln was self taught. Do you really think you could become a professional, lawyer, licensed by a state bar, to practice law as a result of home study? If so, you'd better think again. You'd be thrown in jail by real lawyers so fast you wouldn't know what hit you. So would Lincoln if he tried to practice law today without graduating from school and passing the bar. Lincoln practice law over 150 years ago. Do you really think that the study and practice of law hasn't changed during that time? If so, you'd better think again.

What I wrote about was absolutely correct, and you have posted nothing to prove otherwise. But you see, when I give lectures, I begin by posting the words, "Think For Yourself. Question Authority." If one of my teachers said "Ninjitsu is over 2,000 years old," my response would be, "Yes, Sensei." However, I would do my own research. If you actually did research you would find that there is NO evidence that the practice of Ninjitusu is older than about 800 years. There were various practices that were folded into Ninjitsu that are undoubtedly older, but they were parts of older systems.

FYI, the system of martial arts I studied with was the Sil Lum School of Kung Fu, run by Sifu Douglas Wong, brother of the publisher of "Kung Fu" magazine. We studied five family style kung fu, one of the oldest of the Asian martial arts. Perhaps the only one older was five animals style which, when I was practicing, was still being taught in Los Angeles by Grandmaster Ark Yuey Wong, the first person to teach kung fu to non-Asians.

You write, "What matters the most is as to whether you know the material or not."

That's true. And when, someday, you decide you want to get training in NLP you'll learn that there are different levels of actually knowing the material. You'll discover that your trainer will actually be teaching directly to your unconscious mind and you will understand things on levels that you will never get from reading about NLP.

You talk about Wal-Mart. The founder of Walmart graduated from the University of Missouri. He then spent a year-and-a-half working and learning at a J.C. Penny's in Iowa. He then became a Ben Franklin franchisee and spent three years running a store in Arkansas. That's a college education plus 4.5 years in specific training before he started the store that became the start of Wal-Mart. He wasn't self-educated. He didn't take a Learn Business at Home course.

My friend, I admire your energy. The problem is, you think you know more than you do. Worse, instead of looking to others who do know more for guidance, you think you know better than they. For everything I know, there are probably a million things I don't know. One thing I've learned, though, is that when I don't know something I look for advice from people who do.

You have made up your mind as to what really is--that's a limiting decision. You refuse to take the advice of others who know more than you and I combined. That's another limiting decision.

Reading some books and going out into the world to test it won't help you when you're simply wrong. When you have a closed mind to what is necessary to change and improve. So if you think you can read a few books and become an NLP pro, good luck! I can guarantee that real NLP practitioners will stand up to your lack of knowledge, understanding, and incompetence when you try to practice, not because they want to force you to go to a training, but because they want to support what they're doing by exposing the charlatans.

You write you don't have the time or money. Those are limiting decisions. As a teacher of mine said long before B&G codified NLP, "You'll never find the time, you have to make the time." As to not having the money, if you really want to learn NLP...prove it! Start packing lunches instead of buying them. Stop going to movies and paying for cable TV. Get another part time job. Do those simple things and within three months you'd have enough money to get training.

Dude, you can't BS someone who can BS better than you.:D


I never said that I knew it all. All that I am saying is that I have different life experiences than you do.

I know all about BSing as I have grown up around it. One of the first people to teach me about stuff like that was a friend of my family's when I was about 10 or 11 years old. He was a professional con artist by trade and from him me, my stepbrother and my sister all learned a lot from him.

I have also spent a lot of time hanging around people like my stepbrother who in his own right was a professional thief and con artist and many of the people that I have come to know have also been professional thieves and con artists.

One of my friends who lives in my apartment complex used to be in prison and lately he has been talking a lot about going out to California to join up with the Hells Angels. I personally have told him that I think that would be a very bad idea, but if that is what he wants to do then there is nothing that I can do to stop him.

I'm also more aware of Ninjutsu than you seem to give me credit for as the martial arts have been the only thing outside of the Baptist faith that I have had my whole life in which to fall back onto because my father was never there for me as I was growing up and as a result I spent most of my life studying everything that I could about the martial arts and ninjutsu.

In the 1980's when Ninjutsu was just starting to become known I followed that religiously by reading everything that I could get my hands on about the subject. I read all the books that were available at the time that were written by people like Stephen K. Hayes who is the first non-asian to ever be accepted and trained in the art of Ninjutsu and he is the one that is largely responsible for kicking off the Ninjutsu craze of the 1980's.

I also read and subscribed to every martial art publication like Black Belt Magazine and anything else that I could find at the time relating to it and at one point it even pissed off my mother to the point where she tried to take it all away from me.

Since that time I have been able to have some formal martial arts training in Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido and I have even had a few classes in Sil Lum Kung Fu. I know that the kung fu training that I received was not the best or even complete and I don't claim to know it all either, but at least I am making every effort to find out that in which I don't know.

Since the craze of the 1980's relating to Ninjutsu, Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi who is the 34th Grandmaster of Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu and who lives in Noda City, Japan and is recognized that way by the Japanese government and by the entire martial arts community has published some books and even instructional video's relating to Ninjutsu and it's history and even he says that it is over 2000 years old.

Trying to argue with him on the subject is a futile point because compared to either you or I he is an expert on the subject and he is also a medical doctor. This is the type of guy that if he wanted to he could break every bone in your body and then turn around and reset every bone that he broke if he chose to do so, but because he is also the grandmaster of Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu he also has the ability to kill either you or me if he chose to do so and there is nothing that either of us could do to stop him.

Since he has become the grandmaster of Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu he has made it a priority and a mission to teach ninjutsu to people both inside Japan and outside of Japan in an effort to spread awareness of the art and since that time he has trained people in the art and has given them official licensure to teach ninjutsu outside of Japan.

Some of the people that I am aware of that are authorized to teach it is Stephen K. Hayes, Richard J. Van Donk, Bud Malmstrom, and Robert Bussey just to name a few. Since that time however Stephen K. Hayes has been stricken from that list by him because of his behavior and according to what I have read on wikipedia Stephen K. Hayes is no longer authorized to teach Ninjutsu by authority of Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi.

If it were up to me I would go to Japan and train under Dr. Hatsumi personally, but since that takes both time and money there is really little that I can do. The best that I can hope for at the moment is to study what I can from people like Richard Van Donk, Robert Bussey and anyone else that I can find that is either authorized to teach it formally or that even knows anything about it. There is supposed to be an instructor in the Rio Rancho area of New Mexico that is supposed to be authorized by the Bujinkan to teach it, but so far I have not had the pleasure of being about to go there and find out. Part of the reason for this is because there really are not a whole lot of authorized instructors out there and those that are authorized to teach it are not in every area.

Unlike mainstream arts like Karate, Tae Kwon Do and Kung Fu, Ninjustu is still keep it's cloak of secrecy about it and that is part of what tends to make it so hard to find good qualified instructors that are authorized to teach it in person.

Most of the other martial arts are well publized and adverstised, but ninjutsu is not one of them and part of that is done on purpose as they are not very eager to go out and teach just anyone as they do not want bully's out there going around and using it just so that they can feel good about themselves by beating up on other people.

Self-defense is good, but being a bully is not and even Bruce Lee knew that. The really good martial artists do not do all that much advertising because they are afraid of it getting into the wrong hands.

When I look at the martial arts I tend to look at it more as a way to grow spriritually and emotionally and not as a way of going out with the intention of proving something to someone.

People who think that they have to beat up, insult, or intimidate someone else are usually the ones that are the most insecure because in their mind they have something to prove to everyone. Someone who is truly in the martial arts and who truly knows what they are doing does not have to prove anything to anyone other than themselves.

One of the things that Shihan Van Donk said in his training videos that I have watched so far is that more often than not the biggest and worst battle that anyone can ever fight is the battle betwee their own two ears and I believe that he is right about that. He also went on to state that too many of us are out of balance in our lives and I believe that he is right about that as well.

When it comes to NLP, the martial arts, the Huna, Hypnosis and other related things my intent is to improve myself and to be the best that I can be while at the same time defending myself from those who might otherwise try to harm me or to take advantage of me in any way.


You may think that you are a bigger bs'er, but unless you have hung around professional con artists like my friend from childhood, my stepbrother, or even my lady friend that lived next door to me then you really don't have much of a leg to stand on.

I don't know if it is true or not, but one of the things that my lady friend told me was that she had friends that were associated with the mafia and that as to date they have made several people disappear permanently.

Even though I have not heard from her lately, she is still my friend and from what I have heard about her lately she has apparently made major efforts to clean up her life and in my opinion that is totally awesome and I am really glad for her.

I just wish that some of the other people that I know and have known would do the same, but at the moment I just can't say if that will ever happen. You may think that you know a lot about the criminal element, but unless you are currently living in the hood and dealing with criminals every day you really don't know.

Even though I do not like it. I am currently living in the hood and it is definately not a place that I want to stay in. If I had the money I would get out of this place just as fast as I could and would get into a better envrionment because where I live at right now I just do not feel very safe at all and as a result I am very, very cautious about who I trust and who I don't.

In my neighborhood there is only about one person that I really do know and trust. Outside of that the only people that I know and even remotely trust in the Albuquerque area are my mother and her boyfriend who live across town and then of course the pastors of the church that my mother and her boyfriend introduced me to in 2005 while I was visiting them one time.

I have been to many of the sermons that my pastor has given and much of what he says during his sermoms really makes sense to me and in many ways I really do agree with what he is saying. Perhaps that is because of everything that I have studied from people like Ross, Mystery, and David DeAngelo and I think part of it also is because of what I have not only read, but also experienced in my life.

I also tend to think that part of it also has a lot to do with the Baptist teachings that my grandparents tried to install in me when I was little and I also tend to think that another major part of it also tends to relate to a woman that I once knew and loved in 1987 and that I know loved me as well.

Unfortunately back then I was pretty stupid as she had asked me to change on multiple occasions, but I did not listen nor did I really know how to change as she never really said as to how I was supposed to change.

Since that time and since I have studied what Ross, Mystery and David DeAngelo have taught along with my own readings and my own life experiences I have spent a lot of time studying that past relationship and every other relationship and interaction that I have ever had with a woman and as a result I have learned quite a lot about what I have done right and what I have done wrong in each of those interactions and relationships.

I can't say that I know it all as I am still learning about it all and am still trying to understand each and every relationship and interaction that I have had with women and unless a miracle happens I am pretty sure I will continue to keep learning as well.

[rdonovan1]

If you want to find out more about what Ninjutsu is really all about then you can try Richard Van Donk's website at www.ninjutsu.com (http://www.ninjutsu.com).

Stephen Hayes and Robert Bussey also have their own websites as well, but at the moment I don't have their website addresses handy for you.

If you are interested in anything that Robert Bussey or Stephen Hayes teaches then you can check out their websites and I know that you can order Robert Bussey's home study course from Century Martial Arts.

I have looked at Stephen Hayes website and I must admit that I do kind of find it interesting. He too has a black belt home study course, but from what I have seen I think that Richard Van Donk's stuff is better, but then again that is only my personal opinion.

[Poodle]

Get off the net. Turn the pc off and disconnect it's connections with the outside world. It costs $$. Get rid of cable or satellite TV too. Brown bag your lunch. Use a bicycle. Work weekends doing yard work and if you are the least bit handy, get to work. You will have the money for a real IN-PERSON NLP training. You'll also save money on electricity and gasoline.

Pood

[rdonovan1]

Get off the net. Turn the pc off and disconnect it's connections with the outside world. It costs $$. Get rid of cable or satellite TV too. Brown bag your lunch. Use a bicycle. Work weekends doing yard work and if you are the least bit handy, get to work. You will have the money for a real IN-PERSON NLP training. You'll also save money on electricity and gasoline.

Pood


I'm looking for anything that I can get and as I said I am trying to find ways of starting my own business so that I can start to make money right now.

[Don]

Most people don't make money for a year with a new business. Most new businesses fail within a couple of years. If you want to make your business a success, get a second job and save some money and get your NLP training first.

[rdonovan1]

Most people don't make money for a year with a new business. Most new businesses fail within a couple of years. If you want to make your business a success, get a second job and save some money and get your NLP training first.


People don't make money because they don't apply themselve's and they don't take the time to understand who their customer is or even as to how they are going to market to them.

In the end their failure is because they did not take the time to really understand what business they were in or even as to who they were trying to reach.

This fact has been proven time and time again and if you don't believe it then you need to do a lot more research into what it really takes to be an entrepreneur.

A good place to start would be entrepreneur.com's website as they generally tend to have a lot of good stuff relating to the subject and that is where I got a lot of my stuff from when it comes to business, but I did not stop there.

From there I went on to purchase additional books and other related resources that I could and I have even talked with members at SCORE and the SBA.

Currently I am on another forum relating to business and that is all they talk about. The forum is nothing but business and as to what it takes to really be successful in business.

Just in case you are interested, you might also want to check out some of Robert Kiyosaki's work as it is pretty good.

Whether you agree with me or not doesn't matter. The fact is that contrary to your belief I am not as naive as you might think that I am as I have been around the block more than a few times and I have seen and experienced things that you have not both relating to business and not relating to business.

I have also been involved with psychology for a lot longer time frame than you apparently have.

My mother and my father totally believe in everything that psychology says and over the years my family has had more interaction with psychologists and psychiatrists than you can shake a stick at.

My mother has been diagnosed with PTSD and she see's psychologists and psychiatrists on a almost a daily basis. She is also so found of psychology that if a psychologist or a psychiatrist were to invent a new disease, then she would be the first one to have it because that is just how she is.

She takes anything that psychologists and psychiatrists say at face value and does not bother to go and find out the truth and that is why I don't trust psychologists at all.

At one time I even read a book that was written by a psychiatrist and in the book he said that most psychologists really don't know what they are talking about because they are improperly trained and I tend to believe that because Bandler made a similar reference to that in his book 'Using your brain for a change'.

Ever since I read that book my thoughts and my trust has been in NLP and the works of either Richard Bandler or Dr. Milton Erickson.

Anything outside of that is nothing but a complete waste of time.

Since that time however I have opened up to psychology at least a little just so that I could find out as to what psychologists and the rest of society tend to believe in because as Richard Bandler said in his book 'Persuasion Engineering' most people tend to think negatively.

This same point has also been made by Milton Erickson as well and out of all the psychologists and psychiatrists out there he is the only one that I truly trust.

If it does not relate to Erickson, Satire, Perls or any of the other people that Bandler and Grinder used in the formation of NLP, then I do not trust them because to me Bandler's stuff is the most kick ass stuff out there when it comes to NLP and no one can even come close to it.

I agree that I may not know everything about NLP or about Hypnosis, but that does not mean that I am not trying to learn.

When I have the money, then I can go and take some formal classess in NLP and hypnotherapy, but until that time I am limited to what I currently have before me.

If you want to pay for my training, then be my guest. Until then you are just going to have to accept that I am doing my best and to stop ridiculing and criticizing me just because I don't have the money to go and get more formal training.

[Don]

rdonovan: People don't make money because they don't apply themselve's and they don't take the time to understand who their customer is or even as to how they are going to market to them.

That's it, huh? That's the only reason people don't make money. It's funny. I know lots of people who are working two and three jobs. Now that's applying yourself. I don't know if I could apply myself so strongly. But you know, they're barely getting by.

But you know all of this stuff. How's it workin' for ya? Are you rich now? You seem to know everything about it.

I have a friend who can tell me the benefits and hazards of at least fifty different diets for losing weight. She can tell yo the differences each one has. She knows everything there is about dieting. And she's about 50 pounds overweight.

You're like her. You know everything, but because you're a victim, you haven't succeeded. That's too bad.

If you want to succeed, get your training in NLP. I think NLP training will do only one thing for you: teach you how to change your mind. Powerful stuff.

Seems to me your current beliefs and behaviors aren't working the way you want them to. You're sure applying yourself to keeping those patterns. Seems to me you're succeeding really well at it, too.

[rdonovan1]

rdonovan: People don't make money because they don't apply themselve's and they don't take the time to understand who their customer is or even as to how they are going to market to them.

That's it, huh? That's the only reason people don't make money. It's funny. I know lots of people who are working two and three jobs. Now that's applying yourself. I don't know if I could apply myself so strongly. But you know, they're barely getting by.

But you know all of this stuff. How's it workin' for ya? Are you rich now? You seem to know everything about it.

I have a friend who can tell me the benefits and hazards of at least fifty different diets for losing weight. She can tell yo the differences each one has. She knows everything there is about dieting. And she's about 50 pounds overweight.

You're like her. You know everything, but because you're a victim, you haven't succeeded. That's too bad.

If you want to succeed, get your training in NLP. I think NLP training will do only one thing for you: teach you how to change your mind. Powerful stuff.

Seems to me your current beliefs and behaviors aren't working the way you want them to. You're sure applying yourself to keeping those patterns. Seems to me you're succeeding really well at it, too.


I never said that I knew it all. Anyone who claims to know it all is stupid because all they are really showing is that they can't or won't take the time to go out and find out that in which they don't know.

That is a limiting belief on their part because if they truly wanted to know then they would go and find out that in which they did not know.

Working that many jobs is fine and I never said otherwise. That is different from starting a real business and I am actually trying to do both.

Just recently I submitted an application for a company called Convergys and just this morning I got an e-mail back saying that I did not meet their qualifications.

That stuff happens, but what really gets me about it is that I was not even given an interview at all. I have even applied for two of the local Casino's in the area and so far I have not gotten anything from them either.

All that I can do is to keep trying as many different places as I can. At this point I really don't care what I do, just as long as it is a job and it is honest and ethical.

[Soren K (existing)]

Bodhidharma brought zen to china (so the story goes) when he pitched up at Shaolin where he instructed his monks to practice the martial arts. Whether he brought these arts from India I'm not totally sure. It is often suggested nonetheless.

Jeet Kun Do (to be clear) is a concept rather than a fighting system, although Bruce Lee did teach his own brand of kung fu (Jun Fan Kung Fu - which means, literally 'Bruce Lee's Kung Fu' - Jun Fan is Bruce's birth name). There is a home for Krav Maga for anyone of a JKD orientation. There are so many excellent martial arts in the world. MMA is demonstrating some of the most effective in competition - I was thinking the other night that the fighting styles in such formats as UFC will soon develop as the various currently dominant styles are tested and tested (Brazialian Jui Jitsu, Wrestling, Muay Thai, being of the most demonstrably competitively effective). I recently saw a black belt shotokan karate fighter who had taken the best from his karate and integrated it with the ground game and standup fighting, making him a formidable opponent, for the majority of fighters who train muay thai for standup and BJJ for ground.

[Don]

rdonovan: [lots of stuff]

Okay, I really tried to point you in a direction of change. So have others. However, you are so incredibly fixated in your "my way or the highway" attitude that continuing this further is useless. I'm just going to say one thing more.

LOOK AT YOUR LIFE!!!!

Are you happy with it? All you do is complain about it. You don't have a job. People are con artists. People aren't safe. You don't like your neighborhood.

And yet, you're putting out that you have all the answers and complain that people are "attacking" you if they don't agree with your answers.

Let me be really blunt: YOUR ANSWERS AREN'T WORKING FOR YOU.

So how long are you going to stick with a failed process? How long are you going to continue on a path of failure? How long are you going to continue to insist that your path, which has give you nothing but unhappiness and poverty is the right path for you?

You're a metaphoric addict. You're an addict to victimhood. You're an addict to failure. You're an addict to processes that don't work.

My friend, people here have pointed in the direction away from the addictions that are literally killing you. You can stay with your addictions or chose life, wealth, friendship, intimacy and freedom.

The choice is yours.

[rdonovan1]

Bodhidharma brought zen to china (so the story goes) when he pitched up at Shaolin where he instructed his monks to practice the martial arts. Whether he brought these arts from India I'm not totally sure. It is often suggested nonetheless.

Jeet Kun Do (to be clear) is a concept rather than a fighting system, although Bruce Lee did teach his own brand of kung fu (Jun Fan Kung Fu - which means, literally 'Bruce Lee's Kung Fu' - Jun Fan is Bruce's birth name). There is a home for Krav Maga for anyone of a JKD orientation. There are so many excellent martial arts in the world. MMA is demonstrating some of the most effective in competition - I was thinking the other night that the fighting styles in such formats as UFC will soon develop as the various currently dominant styles are tested and tested (Brazialian Jui Jitsu, Wrestling, Muay Thai, being of the most demonstrably competitively effective). I recently saw a black belt shotokan karate fighter who had taken the best from his karate and integrated it with the ground game and standup fighting, making him a formidable opponent, for the majority of fighters who train muay thai for standup and BJJ for ground.


Soren,

I really like what you said as it really does make a whole lot of sense. I can't say that I have ever studied Shotokan at all, but I have seen it on Century Martial Arts website and I have seen it back in my home state of Minnesota.

Initially I started out with Tae Kwon Do and Hapkido or at least formally, but informally I have always been in interested in things like Ninjutsu as well as other related Japanese and Okinawan martial arts.

I have also kind of had an interest in many of the Chinese martial arts, but so far the only one that I have ever had any chance of studying formally was Nothern Sil Lum Kung Fu.

That did not last very long and I did not get very far with it, but I do still to this day still kind of have an interest in many of the chinese martial arts.

My primary though when it comes to martial arts is ninjutsu and lately some people have in my area have suggested that I take up MMA.

I have also been very aware of Muay Thai and while I must admit that it does kind of seem interesting I just have not as of yet had much of a chance to study it.

I know that historically at least many police officers were taught Kenpo Karate, but as Don as said that may have changed and I do not doubt him in that it is very possible that they may have changed over to Krav Magna.

I have talked to a few police officers, but so far none of them have really told me much as to what they are currently being taught. The last time anyone that I knew that had been a police officer told me that they were taught Kenpo Karate, but then again that was many years ago and as Don has pointed out that may have changed since then.

I also have to admit that I am very interested in anything relating to the special forces both armed and unarmed and military history does in a way tend to fascinate me.

When I was growing up my step father would always tell me about the Air Force and as to what the Air Force supposedly did to him in the 1950's and as a result I at one time developed a strong interest in military aviation and at one point I even wanted to go to the Air Force Academy.

When I was dating a girl that I knew in 1987. I told her that and I know that after she broke up with me in August of 1987 several things happened.

The first thing that happened is that she started to follow me one day while I was walking up to a firearm safety class and then in something like February of 1988 I asked her if she wanted to get back together with me.

She said no and I left it at that. However later that year I told her that I wanted to live in Colorado and that I wanted to be a truck driver. After that everything pretty much died down.

We talked pretty much every day during the school year until we graduated from high school and then after that we pretty much just drifted apart.

Sometime in the early 90's my parents met her at J.C. Penney's in the Southdale mall in Minnesota where she was working and she asked about me. I did not find out about this until somewhere around 1997 or 1998 when my mother told me about it.

At that time I kind of thought that it was kind of on the odd side as I pretty much figured that if she hated me so much then why would she even bother asking about me and the only answer that I can come up with is that even remotely explains as to why she followed me and as to why she asked about me was because she still had feelings for me.

Somewhere around 2003 my ex wife had suggested to me that I look her up on classmates.com which of course I did, but at that time I did not find her listed there. I did however find a link to an online private investigation/background check company that is supposed to help you find lost loves, friends, and relatives and when I saw that I thought that it was pretty interesting.

Given what my mother and my ex wife had said along with what I know happened during and after that relationship my curiousity got the better of me and I decided that I would pay the $60 bucks for the report just to see what it said.

When I got the report it was kind of confusing, but from what I read of it, it tended to make me think that maybe she had gotten married, but I really couldn't say for sure.

It was not until something like 2005 that I finally got confirmation of it. Because of my constant talking about it to my father and to my mother, my father had suggested that I call her and to see what was up.

Well at the time since I did not know as to where she was even living at I decided that I would try another company called intellisearch and from there I was able to find her parents phone number as I did not have any other phone numbers at the time for her.

I called her parents one day and while her mother seemed neither upset or overly excited to hear from me she did tell me that she did get married and that she was living out of state.

That was the most information that I had at that time. I can't remember if it was either before or after that phone call and at the moment I am thinking that it was immediately after it that I decided to go back to intellisearch and to see if there was anything more that I could learn from the reports just because I wanted to satisfy my own curiousity.

What I got back was kind of startling to me as I found out that she had gotten married and that she had gotten married to a man who is exactly one month to the day younger than I am and they got married in Inver Grove Heights, Minnesota exactly one week to the day prior to me and my ex wife getting married.

Me and my ex wife were married on August 14, 1998 in Bloomington, Minneosota and this girl got married on August 7, 1998 in Inver Grove Heights, Minnesota and the man that she married was originally from the Denver, Colorado area.

From the reports I have also found out that she and her husband are currently living in Colorado Springs, Colorado and to me I tend to find that a little on the odd side as that tends to go back to what I told her about the Air Force Academy and of my desire to live in Colorado.

Since I got introduced to the pick up arts I have learned that not all women are really all that happy in relationships that they tend to get into and more often than not they tend to end up feeling kind of on the stuck side not really knowing how to get out the relationship.

When I heard that from Ross, Mystery and Major Mark I kind of thought that was interesting, but after I started reading some books relating to romance writing, and relationships (some of which were written by Christian counselors and by psychologists) I started to wonder if maybe that applied to this girl and her husband and after reading a little bit about things like astrology, the enneagram, psychology, NLP and hypnosis and in applying it to what I knew about me and the relationship that I had with her I started to conclude that maybe there was some truth and that maybe there might be something to this whole thing after all.

After I really started to get further into NLP and into what Bandler and Erickson were saying as well as into things like evolutionary psychology and based upon what I knew as well as to something that she had said about the Book of JOB in the Bible I started to really start to wonder and to really start paying attention to patterns and from what I can tell there does seem to be some kind of pattern to it all because in my opinion it is just way too coincidental for it to be random and that is what tends to make me wonder if there might not possibly be some sort of either psychological or even psychic connection going on between me and her.

Another thing that I kind of got from reading my, hers and her husbands horoscope and in comparing that with what I knew about both the relationship, the pick up arts, gender differences, psychology, NLP, hypnosis, and the ennegram as well as readings written by women and conversations that I have had with women is that that women generally tend to like the romantic bad boy to a certain degree and for some reason that just really tends to turn women on.

From what I can tell from what I have learned from Ross, Mystery, David DeAngelo and all of my other studies as well it all basically tends to related to them really wanting a strong man that is decisive and that really knows what he really wants out of life, work, relationships, and everyting else, but who is also sensitive as well.

If he is too nice, then they tend to consider the guy to be a wimp and if he tends to go the other way, then he tends to come off as being a complete jerk. Either way they don't like that at all and from what I have learned the ideal balance that they tend to like is a man who is basically the Alpha male and science tends to support that theory or at least based upon what I have studied.

Some of what I currently know comes from the pick up arts and as to what Ross and Mystery have said, while most of the rest tends to come from direct observation and conversations with women, and of course a whole lot of reading as well.

Some of the reading comes from the world of business. One of the books that I have read is written by a woman by the name of Marti Barletta an in the begining of the book there is a foreward that is written by Tom Peters and in that foreward he says that over 80 percent of the market share is made of women and that fact seems to be supported by not only Marti Barletta herself, but by other female authors and speakers like Faith Popcorn and other related female authors and speakers, but it does not stop there as it is also supported by a whole host of psychologists that I cannot even begin to count.

All of it tends to come down to things like how the brain functions, personality, social and cultural differences, and biological differences as well. So at least based upon what I have studied there does seem to be a lot of supporting evidence to support my theory, but at the moment I just don't know as to how to really put it all together and as to how to properly present it all.

One of the things that I have learned from Ross and from reading all of these books as well as from my own interactions is that women generally tend to have much higher standards and social skills than most men and if a man were to set his standards to equal or exceed that of women, then basically he will be all that much better off for it and it will generally help in every other aspect of his life whether it be personal or business related.

Another thing that was once brought up to me in a book that I read by Dr. Neil Warren Clark, the founder of eharmony.com and a psychologist is that no matter how good we think our social skills are at the moment there is always room for improvement and that is something that I have been trying to do for a long time.

Basically what I have been doing is looking back and my life and trying to change as many things about both myself and my life as I could because of the fact that I basically blame myself for what happend in that relationship and I personally think that at some point in the future I am going to have a chance to see this girl again.

How I am going to handle it at that time I don't know and that is something that I have been working on for a long time.

[Poodle]

Don't cha wish you would have just let it go and not responded?

I wonder what DHE could do here. Apparently not enough.

Love~ma

[Soren K (existing)]

Don't cha wish you would have just let it go and not responded?

I wonder what DHE could do here. Apparently not enough.

Love~ma

I'm just laughing away here :D. Tis a crying shame... lol, the dramas we live heh? :)

When you coming to visit ma?

JC
x

[Poodle]

Lovely quote! I'll send you a PM since you can't see the part of the Forum this is posted in and you do deserve to know, perhaps more than most!

Love~ma ;)