View Full Version : Assistance w/ failed attempts
Stoic
03-23-2005, 01:25 AM
Hello,
First and foremost, I would like to state I have listened to a good number of lectures and covered some books including some from Richard Bandler. However, I have had two cases of success, yet five failures. I am very new to this art, and I will admit that this is no task you master by learning the variables; it is an art requiring you to have a good understanding of the concept. You cannot memorize the text and spit it back out. Fortunately, for me, I typically learn conceptually.
I have tried many methods, and seams like when I distract them from the idea of hypnosis, where they expect something supernatural to happen, I have success. In those cases, I tell them I will help them enter a state of meditations, which they know I perform myself. Yet it is too soon for me to make assumptions, I would like some input on my approach, what will improve their trance, and any constructive criticism. Now briefly I will share what I do generally (keep in mind, I never stick to the book.)
-Do some tests
-Inform them about hypnosis
-Relax them (2 mins)
-Have them close their eyes and visualize and tell me their story of a peaceful place (5-10 mins, this is for me to get an understanding of what they like, and build transference)
-Then take them on a journey (5-10 mins)
-Interrupt the story calmly yet suddenly ( 2 mins, an example would be; imagine that all of the sudden curtains close and your visualizations pauses for a moment, I talk to them at this phase, and then I resume the journey)
-Wake them up
I speak very rhythmically, in patterns, and with appropriate tonality (IMO.)
Terry (existing)
03-23-2005, 10:31 AM
If I understand your post, you have developed a method for yourself, based on reading about this art, and find that it doesn't work all the time, do I understand you correctly? If so, it would seem that you haven't read the previews of this board, or what it can and can't do. We are unable to teach hypnosis, and that is what you are asking for..... You have one method and now you want us to offer suggestions to change that method so that it will work at all times, and that is impossible, nor is it hypnosis, or how hypnosis works. The practitioner uses different methods based on the client, and what they get from that client during an interview. That is why we press posters who are interested to take a proper training course..... We are no substitute for such courses....
Stoic
03-23-2005, 07:43 PM
If I understand your post, you have developed a method for yourself, based on reading about this art, and find that it doesn't work all the time, do I understand you correctly? If so, it would seem that you haven't read the previews of this board, or what it can and can't do. We are unable to teach hypnosis, and that is what you are asking for..... You have one method and now you want us to offer suggestions to change that method so that it will work at all times, and that is impossible, nor is it hypnosis, or how hypnosis works. The practitioner uses different methods based on the client, and what they get from that client during an interview. That is why we press posters who are interested to take a proper training course..... We are no substitute for such courses....
I am not asking you to teach me the process of hypnosis. I am familiar with that, some video’s I have do more justice than any post can do (due to visual aid). All I ask is for interactive assistance in regards to the concept. A perfect concept is flawless and will never fail; an incorrect concept will always fail. Now I am somewhere in the grey area, I would like to move toward a better understanding, and that is displayed by the level of success I have in comparison to the difficulty of the case. Or am I asking for too much?
For the sake of clarity let me explain what I understand of hypnosis. In case of a misconception on my part, please do inform me.
Ultimately, we want to minimize the conscious minds awareness or level of interference as much as possible and communicate with the sub-conscious. To achieve that there are different methods, of indirect or direct suggestions that must be accepted willingly. Those two categorize have even more items under their umbrella of suggestions. Tonality, fractionalization, rhythm, anchors, disassociation, and visualizations are some of the items. Lets stop right here.
Some questions…
What purpose does tonality serve? Does it create somewhat of an association? Create a relaxed state? Both? More?
Visualizations do not seam to be working as well as I had hoped. My suspicion is that I take too long with them, and I do not use them as a method of suggestions, just a way to distract them from the outside world. I have had more success in telling them to visualize somewhere, and not guiding them in every step.
Another very important question that I find difficult to answer for myself is, what do you look for generally (I know each person is different) to indicate a deep enough trance to be considered hypnosis.
However, I do not want to go further unless I feel someone is willing to help me understand this art.
Most of my subjects are good friends of mine that know my good nature, which allows for some greater progress. My ultimate goal is mastering self-hypnosis. Nevertheless, for that I must first learn hypnosis and its concept then apply it to myself.
Merlin
03-23-2005, 08:09 PM
Hello,
I'd recommend you go take a course in hypnosis.
What you say you are doing seems far removed from hypnosis.
Stoic
03-23-2005, 08:19 PM
Hello,
I'd recommend you go take a course in hypnosis.
What you say you are doing seems far removed from hypnosis.
*sigh*
As disappointing and discouraging as that sounds. Could you be more specific, please?
And,
Based on what you have learned in the tapes you mention, how do you feel you could
"we want to minimize the conscious minds awareness or level of interference as much as possible"
actually effect a state of hypnosis, if you are "using" the conscious at the time ?
EC
Merlin
03-23-2005, 09:59 PM
>*sigh*
>As disappointing and discouraging as that sounds. Could you be more specific, please?
I'll start off with saying Hypnosis and trance are different. Many people believe they are the same and may contradict some of my answers based on their own beliefs.
So, you may get contradictory answers from others here.
>First and foremost, I would like to state I have listened to a good number of lectures and covered some books including some from Richard Bandler.
Kewl.
>However, I have had two cases of success, yet five failures.
Obviously there is much going wrong
>I am very new to this art, and I will admit that this is no task you master by learning the variables; it is an art requiring you to have a good understanding of the concept.
Which I encourage you to go learn the concepts
>You cannot memorize the text and spit it back out.
Good understanding
>Fortunately, for me, I typically learn conceptually.
Good!
>I have tried many methods, and seams like when I distract them from the idea of hypnosis, where they expect something supernatural to happen, I have success.
Maybe you could spend time teaching them what hypnosis is and isn't.
Allow 30-60 minutes for each person.
>In those cases, I tell them I will help them enter a state of meditations, which they know I perform myself.
if it works
>Yet it is too soon for me to make assumptions,
>I would like some input on my approach,
>what will improve their trance, and any constructive criticism.
>Now briefly I will share what I do generally
>(keep in mind, I never stick to the book.)
While it is not popular to talk about, and even denied, hypnosis can cause a great deal of harm if done carelessly.
>-Do some tests
Like what?
>-Inform them about hypnosis
How well do you understand it yourself?
How long do you spend teaching this new idea?
>-Relax them (2 mins)
Why?
>-Have them close their eyes and visualize
Why?
>and tell me their story of a peaceful place
For what purpose?
This isn't hypnosis.
What are you trying to accomplish?
>(5-10 mins, this is for me to get an understanding of what they like, and build transference)
Oh.
Build 'transference'?
What do you understand this to mean?
>-Then take them on a journey (5-10 mins)
Why?
Do you ever get around to hypnosis?
>-Interrupt the story calmly yet suddenly
Why?
> ( 2 mins, an example would be; imagine that all of the sudden curtains close and your visualizations pauses for a moment, I talk to them at this phase, and then I resume the journey)
Why?
>-Wake them up
Did they get bored and fall asleep?
Do you ever do anything like hypnosis?
>I speak very rhythmically, in patterns, and with appropriate tonality
Why?
------------------------------------------
>I am not asking you to teach me the process of hypnosis.
That's good. But you do need to learn somehow.
> I am familiar with that, some video’s I have do more justice than any post can do (due to visual aid).
Wouldn't have guessed from your post.
>All I ask is for interactive assistance in regards to the concept.
The concept is that hypnosis is:
The mind has 4 primary ‘filters’ which effect information coming from the senses.
1 filter deletes the sensory input. As vast as the capability of our mind is, there is just more information coming in than we will ever need. Much of the information is deleted before it gets into the mind.
1 filter distorts the information, based on our belief structure.
1 filter generalizes the information for easier processing.
1 filter compares the information with that which is already thought of as fact [critical judgment], and blocks what is believed by the subconscious to be erroneous information. The Critical Judgment Faculty does not know if the information to be filtered is correct or not. It judges based on its current beliefs.
Hypnosis is a bypassing of the 4th filter, the critical judgment filter, and then the establishment of selective suggestibility.
>A perfect concept is flawless and will never fail;
Really?
>an incorrect concept will always fail.
Hmmm...
Interesting belief.
And this belief works for you?
Or would you like to change this belief?
>Now I am somewhere in the grey area, I would like to move toward a better understanding, and that is displayed by the level of success I have in comparison to the difficulty of the case. Or am I asking for too much?
You're asking too much in that you're not totally clear as to what you are doing with your successes and failures.
Do you know when the change you are trying to achieve is easy or hard?
Do you know how harmful what you're trying to do may be?
>For the sake of clarity let me explain what I understand of hypnosis. In case of a misconception on my part, please do inform me.
Good :)
>Ultimately, we want to minimize the conscious minds awareness or level of interference as much as possible and communicate with the sub-conscious.
No need to with hypnosis.
You can be totally aware and alert.
Now, you might want to reduce conscious awareness for various reasons, but it has nothing to do with hypnosis.
There is no need to minimise conscious awareness.
That is totally different from the 'level of interference'
There are times when you might even enlist the conscious' assistance.
>To achieve that there are different methods, of indirect or direct suggestions that must be accepted willingly.
'Willing' is really irrevalent if you have hypnosis, because the mind has no basis for judgement.
>Those two categorize have even more items under their umbrella of suggestions. Tonality, fractionalization, rhythm, anchors, disassociation, and visualizations are some of the items. Lets stop right here.
>Some questions…
>What purpose does tonality serve?
None at all.
It was a bad idea from about 100 years ago that still persists.
>Does it create somewhat of an association?
No
> Create a relaxed state?
It might
>Visualizations do not seam to be working as well as I had hoped.
They have their place.
They can be a great tool for breast enhancement
They can even be a part (small part) in overcoming a problem with diabetes.
> My suspicion is that I take too long with them,
Not likely.
>and I do not use them as a method of suggestions,
>just a way to distract them from the outside world.
Maybe that's another problem.
Why distract?
>I have had more success in telling them to visualize somewhere,
>and not guiding them in every step.
In hypnosis. It's usually best to minimise the details.
The mind is far more capable than you at doing things.
>Another very important question that I find difficult to answer for myself is, what do you look for generally (I know each person is different) to indicate a deep enough trance to be considered hypnosis.
Hypnosis and trace are two *very* different things.
>However, I do not want to go further unless I feel someone is willing to help me understand this art.
You could learn a great deal by reading the archives here, or even reading my FAQ.
>Most of my subjects are good friends of mine that know my good nature, which allows for some greater progress.
This can make hypnosi much more difficult.
Friends come with preconceived ideas about you and your abilities.
Stoic
03-23-2005, 10:45 PM
Merlin, could not thank you enough for putting the time in and your very detailed response.
I have always tried to be aware of my ignorance. I hope you can see my frustration toward the issue.
My love of psychology is deeply rooted in my analytical mind, and I am getting more passionate about it as my research in philosophy progresses.
Now... as you can see I have been following the wrong information, if you would, please direct me in a generally informative direction. I will review the faq you referred to, and also do some research but I’m somewhat lost at this point. A finger in a certain direction is what I need (Middle fingers don’t count).
On another note, about harm done. For the sake clarity, I will put modesty aside and say that I am a very compassionate person. Yet, I agree compassion is not the only requirement for not doing harm. Being well equipped with the correct information is a very important and essential counterpart.
bigdog
03-24-2005, 10:40 AM
>The concept is that hypnosis is:
>The mind has 4 primary ‘filters’ which effect information coming from the >senses.
>1 filter deletes the sensory input. As vast as the capability of our mind is, >there is just more information coming in than we will ever need. Much of the >information is deleted before it gets into the mind.
>1 filter distorts the information, based on our belief structure.
>1 filter generalizes the information for easier processing.
>1 filter compares the information with that which is already thought of as >fact [critical judgment], and blocks what is believed by the subconscious to >be erroneous information. The Critical Judgment Faculty does not know if the >information to be filtered is correct or not. It judges based on its current >beliefs.
>Hypnosis is a bypassing of the 4th filter, the critical judgment filter, and then >the establishment of selective suggestibility.
>There is no need to minimise conscious awareness.
>That is totally different from the 'level of interference'
>There are times when you might even enlist the conscious' assistance.
What is consciours mind? Is there a cut between conscious mind and sub-conscious mind Are those 4 filters that you mention here belongs to sub-conscious mind? and where is command of the action( or non-action) follwed by an event or throught coming from? conscious mind or subconscious mind? Do we really have 2 different kind minds? or we just wired to take multitask at the same time and miss identify it as 2 different kind of mind?
Terry (existing)
03-24-2005, 11:33 AM
It is nice to know that you are a compassionate person, we need more like that, but as you also recognise, you need proper training in order to avoid harm to another, or to yourself. You say you are not asking to be taught hypnosis, and already have a good grasp of it. However, your questions point in a different direction, and we are unlikely to be of help to you in the way you might wish. To attempt to supply the information you ask would take pages of print, and still not teach you all you need to know, so your claim that you already know is not correct in spite of your belief, which I accept as genuine...... A training course would be required, and as I already pointed out, this board is not the proper place for such training. You have a choice, you can find a trainer locally, who will give you what you need, or stay as you are, but in the later case, as a compassionate person, I advise you not to play around with the minds of your friends...... Being cheap, and not getting the training needed to be good, is false economy, and could end up in court at best, and having to live with the knowledge you harmed a friend at worst..... We who practise didn't spend the money to get proper training because we are too stupid to learn from a book, but because we recognise that a good foundation is nescessary if we are to be the best we can be, and our clients deserve the best......
Simple Guy
03-24-2005, 12:55 PM
Stoic,
Terry, in my opinion, responded softly (and tolerably) to your inquiry.
His reply reflects wisdom and experience. Hopefully, it doesn't fall
on deaf ears.
Stoic,
Maybe I can cut thru some of the clutter.
Everyone is in some form of trance all the time. Hypnosis, or more specifically somnambulism is a specific form of trance, typified by two critical attributes, the bypassing of the critical factor, and establishment of selective thinking. There are other indicators but those two are musts.
In somnambulism you can accomplish what is known as deep trance phenomena, such as positive and negative hallucinations, amnesia, anesthesia, hyperesthesia, and more.
Somnambulism isnt critical for producing these 'deep trance' phenomena, but in general most hypnotists will agree that they are charactaristic of somnambulism.
Relaxation, and or comfort arent critical to producing somnambulism, neither is eye closure. There is no specific time frame for producing somnambulism, most hypnotists will take anywhere from 15-20 minutes using a relaxation induction, to reach somnambulism, others will produce somnambulism in about 1-2 minutes using other methods.
Opinions will vary, as to whether deep trance (somnambulism or deeper) is necessary to do successful theraputic work. Opinions will vary as to whether going back to some initial sensitizing event (ISE) otherwise known as regress to cause, is necessary to do successful theraputic work.
People in trance will 'drift' in and out of trance (somnambulism) and will also 'drift' "up and down" in 'depth' depending on what is being said, and or done, by the hypnotist and the hypnotized. People will spontaneously come out of trance, for no apparent, or obvious reason.
There are 'levels' of hypnosis deeper than somnambulism, and some of them are difficult to get a person to 'come out of', because quite simply they dont want to.
Hypnosis, is something done with a person, not to them. This means that your communication is always going to have some response. That respone will either be taking them further into trance, or out. You will have a better success rate when you stop reading at them, or doing to them, and start observing the effects you are having and adjusting accordingly. This means that each trance induction will be unique, based on the responses you are getting. It also means you need to know what to be looking for to know you are on the right track to getting somanmbulism. If you use some 'standard' induction technique with everyone you can expect your success rate to follow a fairly predictable bell curve disrtibution.
100% success rates mean practice and practice and practice. A lot of that will be done best under supervision, so it isnt trial and error. You will learn faster this way, and you wont have so many bad habits to unlearn. It can be self taught, and many people do learn it this way. It is just not the best way. In a group learning situation you have instruction, real time practice and feedback, and lots of practice partners. Thats why people who know say go get a training.
Once you have done all this successfully, you have a person in somnambulism.
What do you intend to do with them now?
hope that helps a bit.
skip
Stoic
03-24-2005, 05:32 PM
I agree Simple guy.
Terry I appreciate your input, and I take it to heart. The input from several replies has changed my perception of my abilities. Admitting to ignorance is the first step to knowledge. Unfortunately, my time is very limited at the moment, and my path uncertain. I might be moving soon. This leaves me without the option of training (I will not settle for some 6 hour, 2-day course). If my interest persists, in the near future I will commit to some form of fulfilling training, which I highly predict it will. However, the thirst for learning more about this topic still waiting to be quenched, and getting stronger as I learn more.
Now I am uncertain if I am in a position to ask questions. Because to ask, you must first understand the question yourself, and in this case I am not too convinced of my understanding. Nevertheless, I gathered some references from the FAQ that Merlin offered, and would like to learn more about hypnosis and different levels of trance. Now my question is what would (if at all) be appropriate to “try out” with my friends? Without taking any risk of possibly harming someone or myself. I ask this because from most of my sources I gathered that, its very hard to harm someone. Not in a form of questioning your advice, but considering the possibility of that pattern persisting, leaving me without a guideline on what can/cannot harm.
Thank you skip, your input has been very helpful in redirecting my efforts in a more productive path.
Stoic,
"Now I am uncertain if I am in a position to ask questions. Because to ask, you must first understand the question yourself, and in this case I am not too convinced of my understanding. Nevertheless, I gathered some references from the FAQ that Merlin offered, and would like to learn more about hypnosis and different levels of trance."
This might be self defeating. I would ask if I dont know and dont know how to find out.
" Now my question is what would (if at all) be appropriate to “try out” with my friends? Without taking any risk of possibly harming someone or myself. I ask this because from most of my sources I gathered that, its very hard to harm someone. Not in a form of questioning your advice, but considering the possibility of that pattern persisting, leaving me without a guideline on what can/cannot harm."
There is no fail safe. Prudent precaution is different. I would get a beginners book, and work thru the exercises. "Hypnosis A Comprehensive Giude" James, Flores, Schober, might be a good place to start. I have an extensive recommended reading list if you would like it.
skip
Simple Guy
03-25-2005, 08:34 AM
"What purpose does tonality serve?
'None at all.
It was a bad idea from about 100 years ago that still persists.'"
Merlin,
Please elaborate on your statement.
Terry (existing)
03-25-2005, 09:16 AM
Skip said it so I won't beat the donkey (G) giving up is not the answer, but care certainly is. As a wise man once said, when you lose, don't lose the lesson, and by that I mean, don't lose the dream, just accept that one way takes an inordinate amount of time, while the other method, of taking a course is much faster, much surer, and carries less risk of making a fool of yourself, or scaring the hell out of you and your friends by stumbling onto an abreaction you have no idea how to deal with. I think from your post you might one day make a fine hypnotist, even a hypnotherapist if you choose, hence I have treated your qestions with due care in my replies. Stay on this board, and perhaps join so that you have a name here. Read all posts, even the dumb ones can teach you something, and eventually do take a course, it truly is the best way to go, and you have if you are lucky, friends with the same interest with whom you can interreact, and work with in a controlled setting.
Stoic
03-25-2005, 06:45 PM
Skip,
"’Hypnosis A Comprehensive Guide’ James, Flores, Schober, might be a good place to start.”
If I understand correctly, you are referring to Tad James, but who are the other names, authors I should look into?
“I have an extensive recommended reading list if you would like it.”
I would greatly appreciate it.
Terry,
Your advice and words of encouragement are not falling on deaf ears. I do plan on pursuing a career in psychology, more specifically psychoanalysis and of course clinical psychology. With my analytical thinking and neutral philosophy, I think and hope one day I will be able to contribute to both individuals and science.
Stoic,
This list is by no means exhaustive and changes from time to time according to whim.
1. NLP
Ok the classic text here is "Frogs into Princes"; most of the old classics by Grinder & Bandler as well as the old crowd of NLPers are fantastic. So "Reframing", "Using your brain for a change", "Heart of the Mind", "Sleight of Mouth", “NLP The New Technology of Achievement” “Magic of NLP Demystified”, etc are all great. The books that started it all were "Structure of Magic Vol 1 & 2", these are more academic reads but still well worth the read if you want to truly understand the heart of what makes NLP, or hypnosis work - the structure of people's thinking!
As a starter I'd recommend read "Frogs into Princes" and work you way into the others over time (especially after you have taken some NLP training), that’s how I began.
2. Hypnosis
OK there are many more great books in this category than you can shake a stick at. So forgive me if I keep the list relatively brief (I could go way OTT on this!)
i. Trance Formations (Grinder & Bandler): this is still one of the best intro texts for hypnosis and language. It’s simple to read, elegant, and presents some very useful and powerful models of hypnosis.
ii. Therapeutic Trances (Stephen Gilligan): an absolute masterpiece of
Ericksonian hypnosis. Gilligan is the man that did a full deep trance ID with Erickson (wheelchair, paralysis & everything!) back in the 70s and it really shows in this masterful exposition of hypnosis. It’s a harder, more advanced read however.
iii. Training Trances (Overdurf & Silverthorn): This is another classic book in the "Trance Formation" vein. The whole book is written in hypnotic language and is a very elegant description of the foundational Ericksonian patterns of trance. Very nice double induction at the beginning using some very elegant phonological ambiguities.
iv. Monster's & Magical Sticks - There's No such Thing as Hypnosis? (Steven Heller): This is a great light read about hypnosis, again demonstrating Ericksonian hypnosis at work in many different situations. Its a lovely read and demonstrates some of the principles very elegantly. Not so much of a how to book.
v. Erickson's Published Papers CD-Rom (available from
www.anglo-american.co.uk): This is an absolute treasure, a bit pricey but worth it. These people have published on CD-Rom pretty much every paper that Erickson ever published, plus a few unpublished ones. There are some real gems to be gleaned from arguably the world's greatest master of hypnosis. This is NOT for beginners, as it can get very technical and at times requires some wading through, but persistence is rewarding!
vi. Therapeutic Metaphor by David Gordon. This book is in textbook style so it isn’t an especially easy read. But it does teach you how to craft a metaphor to have therapeutic results for a specific client. It will also give you insight to Virginia Satirs use of categories.
vii. “Hypnotic Suggestions and Metaphors by D. Corydon Hammond PhD. A very comprehensive book giving numerous varied methods of working with different client problems. For example there are over 20 different approaches to pain management. The chapter on forming hypnotic and post hypnotic suggestion is limited but very good with what it did include.
viii. Hypnotic Realities Erickson and Rossi Awesome detailed dissection of Erickson doing trance work with explanation and commentary by both Erickson and Rossi as each suggestion is given.
ix. Hypnotherapy Erickson and Rossi Analysis of Erickson doing casework.
The above is what I would recommend as a core library for any NLP/Hypnotist. There are thousands of other great texts however (e.g. Elman's "Hypnotherapy", Esdaille's "Mesmerism in India", Sidis' "The Psychology of Suggestion" and Most of Ernest Rossi's books on clinical subjects)
3. Hypnotherapy
- see above
4. Stage Hypnosis
There’s is really only one classic that tops them all in this category:
The New Encyclopedia of Stage Hypnosis (Ormond McGill): Includes pretty much everything you need to know about stage hypnosis from cover to cover (including a few sample shows!) It’s a great light read (though repetitive at times). Ormond is very much an "Old world" hypnotist into his mysticism and mesmerism - which is fine if you ascribe to that, and quaint if you do not. Much great advice is given on all aspects of a show, from understanding hypnosis, to understanding showmanship (NOT the same thing!) and even advertising you.
5. Clinical Hypnosis
Its easier to recommend authors than actual books in this field, so here goes: Ernest Rossi, Jeff Zeig, Stephen Gilligan, Erickson, Michael Yapko, Jay Haley, Andre Weitzenhoffer, Erickson (usually co-authored with another person)
6. Altered States of consciousness
is. Clark Hull's "Hypnosis and Suggestibility" is an old classic that details almost 1000 experiments in hypnosis. A great read, but NB Hull is the one that made the original mistake in the 30s which has plagued hypnosis ever since - he tried to pigeon hole trances by putting a standard induction on a record and then concluding that only 20% of people can go into a deep trance. Hogwash! 20% can only go into a deep trance using only that SPECIFIC method! So watch out for that mistake.
ii. Erickson's Hypnotic Realities is again a fascinating though slightly
Academic text.
iii. Mind Games (Masters & Houston): A great collection of hypnotic
adventures and explorations based on Ericksonian hypnosis.
iv. Extreme Spirituality (Tully Berkan): defined for me the path from belief, to certainty, to action.
v. Holographic Universe (Michael Talbot): Wow, this book combines the theories of two premier researchers, one a physicist and the other a psychologist to form a coherent theory about reality and how we create it.
vi. Miracles of mind Russell Targ and Jane Katra PhD This is the most definitive book on the interconnectedness of the universe, what Jung called the collective unconscious. It also has the best references to double blind studies on ESP, PSI, and remote viewing. Explicit instructions on how to remote view yourself and how to enhance your ability. Fabulous discussion on time, and its properties and its relation to precognition. And then Jane takes up on energy healing. Absolute must read, and the references cited are a trail filled with gold nuggets!
vii "Prometheus Rising" Robert Anton Wilson" Without a doubt one of the best at teaching the difference between reality and belief and how belief shapes and creates your reality, both tangible and intangible. Each chapter has a couple of "exercises" so that you actually get to experience the things taught in that chapter. Don’t read this if you like your current illusion.
viii "The Hiram Key" Knight and Lomas. Take care with this book! By taking a historically accurate look at the origin of Christianity you are liable to have your faith in 'Christianity' severely tested, or your faith in any other religion for that matter.
ix. “A Short History of Nearly Everything” Bill Bryson Excellent and entertaining synopsis of development and current scientific thought, from the ‘beginning’ of time to now. Excellent.
DrTadJames
03-27-2005, 03:22 PM
I think that a Hypnotherapist who knows (or one who only uses) one technique is bound to fail over time because clients NEED at least 2 or 3 different approaches to hypnosis to succeed. Without getting into too much theory about it, people are brought up in a certain way which makes them more accepting of either Indirect/Permissive or Direct/Authoritarian Hypnosis. Erickson was Indirect/Permissive, most Hypnosis is Direct/Authoritarian.
So you need to have several techniques in your arsenal to work with each client.
Now as to yourself (repeating myself), I think that the easiest self-hypnosis technique to learn to do is a technique developed by Dave Elman, which is one of the www.hypnosis.com scripts. (Although honestly, that script is not complete and it needs re-writing.)
Elman wrote a book called Hypnotherapy. The most recent book on it is Hypnosis, A Comprehensive Guide. Knowing the three kinds of hypnosis will make it MUCH easier to hypnotize self and others.
Above all, have fun. Don't get too analytical.
RICK BROWN
03-27-2005, 04:52 PM
I have a pair of or re=ather my girfriend has a pair of twin boys, with a long story. When I first met them nearly three years ago they had been diagnosed as severely autistic at the age of 3.
They are 14 now and we have learned through communicating with them that one is the dominant twin and the other is not even autistic.
Then dominant twin has the power of speaking to the less dominate twin through telepathy. Doctors think we are crazy.
We can prove this condition exsists.....I am an engineer and am not crazy.
Can you help us??? Please
Simple Guy
03-27-2005, 06:09 PM
Rick,
You ask us for help. Presumedly, it is to validate the telepathic condition
that you speak of. If you contact the researchers at www.noetic.org (http://www.noetic.org/)
with some credible evidence, albeit you say,"Doctors think we are crazy,"
maybe you can persuade the Noetic Institute researchers to use the
equipment and protocols at their disposal to look into this. If you
succeed in this, please let us know the outcome.
Stoic
03-30-2005, 10:20 AM
Here I go again with my questions.
Recently I was telling a co-worker of hypnosis and its limitless (relatively) capabilities. He is a diabetic and very over-weight, and wants me to try a couple of scripts that I had the luxury of collecting from hypnosis.com. I suggested that he should go and finds a hypnotherapist in our region, even told him I would do the research for him. Unfortunately, as it stands right now, he is a non-believer, and I could not persuade him to go, it is also a matter of his financial incapability as well.
With that, I would like to collect some opinions regarding the relative safety of this task performed by me, in an attempt and give him some productive suggestions. I see it as being very useful to him, and maybe after noticing some results he will see professional help. What do you guys think?
My first impulse was to suggest you do something easy to help convince him of the potential.
Then I had third thoughts.
I wonder what's at stake here, and for whom.
You told the guy about your findings. You told him you thought professional help would benifit him. You even offered to assist him in fiding a pro.
And he is disinclined.
While I understand your desire to help ...
And I understand your desire to be sure that he found what you had to say credible ...
He clearly isnt motivated enough to accept it.
First ask yourself, "In view of his response, what do I want to do, and why is it so important to me to do so?"
Then if so inclined you could ask him, "What would it take for you to go?"
skip
DrTadJames
03-30-2005, 03:22 PM
Hey Stoic, one of the things we say to students during our trainings is that in order to do therapy (including Hypnotherapy) with someone, we believe that there should be two things present: (1) There should be a client-therapist relationship, and (2) the client should have an investment in it working.
So let's look at what you said above to see if both are present:
(1) A client-therapist relationship -- that means that you are not just doing "bar-talk". Bar talk happens after a few beers at the local bar when you decide to change the world, and forget about it the next day. The client-therapist relationship is where you are the therapist and the client "surrenders" to the process of therapy and the success of it. It does not sound to me as though you have a client-therapist relationship, especially when you say he wants you to TRY a couple of scripts you got from hypnosis.com.
(2) An Investment means that the client gives something of value to compensate for the energy that you invest in doing the therapy. I do not see that either.
SO....what do I think? While you probably could do it if you have ever done hypnosis before with another person and succeeded, I think if (1) and (2) are not present it is best to refer it to someone who is trained.
Finally, I think that if he is a "non-believer" as you say I feel that he will NOT see results, so he will not seek professional help. More than likely, he wants you to TRY to help him so he will have another excuse -- "I even tried hypnosis," he could say. Personally as a Hypnotherapist I do not want to be my client's latest failure, not under any circumstances. Milton Erickson would turn clients down if he felt he could not help them. I think you should not work with him, or if you want to, you should assign a really difficult task for him to do 100% successfully before you see him.
Merlin
03-30-2005, 07:39 PM
Hello Stoic,
While it is often denied, hypnosis can be harmful if done wrong.
It's a common method to have someone get a little bit worse, to show they can control the situation. With tinnitus, a suggestion might be given to make the sound louder. The theory being if you can make it louder, you can make it quieter.
I've known situations where this was suggested. The person made it louder, but then couldn't make it quieter. The hypnotist lacked the skill/experience to help it to get better.
So, the tinnitus continued to be worse :(
What if this was applied to blood sugar level?
What if the person was told to increase their blood sugar level?
This could be deadly!
What of a suggestion to lower the sugar level?
This too could be deadly!
Diabetes can often be helped. But I wouldn't trust 99% of the hypnotists out there. They wouldn't know how to work with this.
Overweight is probably related to the diabetes.
It *could* be harmful to provide help.
Even the experienced hypnotist should tread lightly unless trained for this specific issue.
The weight-loss hypnotist should work with an MD for this.
Not just a referral, but work closely with an MD.
>it is also a matter of his financial incapability as well.
How much is a longer or healthier life worth?
Hello Stoic,
You can answer all your own questions, but you won't get the answers from a book, no matter how erudite, or from any poster here, no matter how knowledgeable.
The only way is to take training at a reputable school and then get hands on experience. The answers to your questions will become apparent during both training and experience.
Jack
Perhaps the more experienced hypnotherapists can make themselves available to help the progressing hypnotherapists learn to 'manage and administrate' the abreaction.
What seminars and actual 'experiencial' classes are available on this aspect?
Paul
Stoic
04-21-2005, 05:32 PM
Paul from philosophy forums? Is that you?