nlp & verbal bullys who make life miserable

[thnkbg]

Is there a nlp course that exist to help people deal with verbally bully's- pushy sales people,people who love to intimidate scream at, put down artist, embarrass,insinuate, criticize, people who basically make your life miserable. I would love to totally learn how to mind **** these people & make them fear me. to many of these books like "verbal self-defense for dummies" deal with the problem in a passive nice sweet way. i would love to verbally kick these peoples ass. i would also like to know hostage negotiation skills & interrogation skills.

[Hypnomania]

Where do you meet this kind of people? It happens maybe once per year that I run into somebody like this. In these cases I use NLP to change the way it makes me feel. For me it's rather funny when I see people behave like this.
Anyhow, maybe the book of Cialdini might be useful for you. It's not about NLP, but might help.

[betlamed]

Isn't this the kind of things that NLP is all about?

d-n-r
bl

[skip]

NLP would be of immense help.

Not necessarily in the way you envision.

What if you were able to manage your own emotional states, in the presence of these 'emotional bullys", such that they didnt effect you, the way they do now?

Would you then have better choice in how you respond to them?

How important would it then be for you to be able to bully them like you percieve them bullying you?

I suspect you dont want relief from them, at the expense of becomming one of them, do you ?

So why not look to NLP to make the necessary changes within yourself, such that you can give these folks only the attention they desreve, not the attention thay demand?

skip

[HypnoBear]

Something that I tend to think about bullies is that they look for those who they think they can successfully "victimise". So the people who are more likely to be on the receiving end of bullying are those who exude a non-confident demeanour, via words, body language, voice tonality, etc.

And of course NLP can help with learning about these things, so that the very act of appearing as confident and assertive to the outside would would (I expect) significantly reduce the times the problem occurs in the first place.

[Charlie]

Sleight of Mouth techniques can sometimes work well with verbal bullies.

[solaris152000]

You want to use NLP to verbally kick some ones ass, welcome to the dark side....

Sorry couldnt resist.

This does intrest me though, I wonder what effect(negative) an NLPer could do to a person if they tried.
Hypothetically, of course...........

[Merlin]

>I wonder what effect(negative) an NLPer could do to a person if they tried.

More than you'll ever imagine <wicked, evil grin>

[skip]

I agree with Merlin.

When you are able to get inside someones head and move the furniture around, you could come up with arrangements, that arent up to fung shui standards. :)

[solaris152000]

Slightly off topic but,

Have you guys ever used NLP to harm a person. If so what did you do.
I dont want to really focus on the exact methods, I'm just intrested.

[skip]

You dont ever want to write me a bad check.

[solaris152000]

Lol, no seriously, I'd just like a little more detail.

[Merlin]

What do you consider harm?

[betlamed]

It's the method itself, and its ideological implications, that are most harmful.

bl

[Neurotic1]

I think most of us have the capability to be particularly verbally abusive to people and to screw with their minds, regardless of training. The key is observation. There are many methods of performing psychological assault besides NLP and it really depends on what effect you want to have, how long lasting you wish the effect to be, how overtly you want to deliver it, etc, etc. I wouldn't like someone who felt the need to psychologically attack someone else too easily. I understand that the questionner here has been provoked but am not convinced that fire fought with fire is necessarily the answer in this situation.

I have been witness to the effect of a prolonged severely abusive psychological assault on somebody. Whilst I was not witness to the act itself, my friend was able to relay what was said to her, in its entireity. She did not in any respect deserve the assault and she was actually one of the victims of a psychopath. She developed PTSD. I could understand the whole thing from start to finish and apart from the distress of my friend being deeply hurt, it really bothered me to be able to understand exactly how it had worked in detail.

I have been on the receiving end of an NLP based verbal assault from a deeply disturbed individual, which I also believe was unprovoked. It had no lasting effect on me because I chose to ignore and dismiss it as it happened. In fact despite being uncomfortable to be subjected to, it was subsequently quite amusing to dissect it.

Of course, one of the least risk-laden methods of 'verbal assault' might be one which was delivered in a 'covert' manner such that the recipient of that assault would not direct any blame for their damaged state towards yourself - or not even be capable of it.

Personally, I don't think we should use verbal / psychological weapons on people to inflict harm, unless they are assaulting us. In such a case, I think any retaliating should be measured and pitched at a similar level. Better still, don't be affected and don't need to retaliate.

I am not convinced that this forum is an appropriate environment to openly discuss actual methods of psychological assault on others. I would be concerned for anyone who felt the need to learn how to engage in such activity - even for 'self defence'. I may be wrong and welcome opinions to the contrary if such opinions can be justified.

I would tend to agree that it would be better to render yourself immune to psychological assault by recognising it for what it is - usually a reflection of the inadequacy of the person delivering it. In addition, I would totally agree with the issue of encouraging 'don't mess with me' or 'this is having no effect on me' signals, in your verbal and non-verbal communication, around those unpleasant people who seem to think that you are to be messed with.

[solaris152000]

I think derren brown could come into this (yes I know what your thinking, "Dear god, not again" ;) ). In his book he describes how he was approached by a drunkerd who threatend to attack him. He describes how he bombared the man with nonsence such as "Did you know the walls in cyprus are alot taller than here and such forth". According to derren the man broke into tears and explained how hed just broke up with his girlfreind.

I think the method of confusion, is much more ethically sound than a full force pycological assualt.

[j0hnny#]

I would tend to agree that it would be better to render yourself immune to psychological assault by recognising it for what it is - usually a reflection of the inadequacy of the person delivering it. In addition, I would totally agree with the issue of encouraging 'don't mess with me' or 'this is having no effect on me' signals, in your verbal and non-verbal communication, around those unpleasant people who seem to think that you are to be messed with.

Nice article there Neurotic one. I think often there is a tendency to fail to respond to psychological attack - at least that has been my own experience on past occasion. If the attack is particularly covert sometimes you don't realise till later what you should have done. My advice is to address the presuppositions. (ok, I've listened to that series 'the gentle art of verbal self defence', which is a useful little series..). Still, you know you feel like sh1t when someone robs you of your time and attention through preoccupation with some stuff infered through malicious communication. If you identify the presupposition in what they say and challenge them with it in the right way, you diffuse the attack. Still, it can be hard to discern in a subtle attack, and you don't want to fall too far into mistrust. In fact mistrust can be a big part in it all. Psychological attack is all about 'having a little fun' (a power trip). Sometimes it can be a simple matter of jest. Jest the jester and you could get involved in a big game - depends if you are willing to play.. I think Skip's point about managing your own emotional states is bang on. Then you can take it or leave it. Self mastery is the way forward.

I disagree that this is the wrong place to discuss the matter - awareness is important. Probably most psychological attackers would do what they did if they knew what they were doing. I realised I once did sh1t like that without realising. Realising what people are doing to you can be a wake up. Realising what you are doing to people can be a wake up. I think there a lot of responsible, fair minded people here, intelligent people, who can deliberate this matter to clarity - its also a resource for people looking for answers.

Johnny

[j0hnny#]

in the last paragraph, should read - 'Probably most psychological attackers would not do what they did if they knew what they were doing'

sorry bout that typo
thanks
J

[j0hnny#]

and this is shameful - but really I should say 'psychological attackers' (inverted commas)

ok, apologies for multiple posting.:o

[j0hnny#]

I think the method of confusion, is much more ethically sound than a full force pycological assualt.

Anyone seen that scene in Resevoir Dogs when Mr Orange has been shot? He's freakin out sayign 'I'm gonna die! I'm gonna Die! F!"K SH&*' Mr White (Keitel) snaps him out of it saying 'Are you a Doctor? Are you a freaking Doctor!?' Orange eventually submits - 'No' , White says 'Welll how d'you know you are going to die?' Orange's pattern breaks on realisation he doesn't know he's going to die - now he's a little confused. Am I gonna die (from this) or not? White manages to steer him into a calmer state, authoritatively informing him that it takes a very long time to die from such a wound. Ok, so the plots ambiguous since Orange is in fact an undercover cop and could do with getting away from the jewelery robbers. Plus, its fiction. However, this demonstrates a nice case of conversational hypnosis. Break a state with pointing up the ignorance involved in it, guide to another state with reasurance. Offer up another suggestion. Something of the rhetorical force of logic in there somewhere.

Confuse the state, offer up an alternative.

Ok, this could be irrelevant. But it came to mind somehow.

J

[thnkbg]

Thanks guys for giving me real world nlp options , im so sick of these guy giving me this vague,ambiguous, cause & effect speech. which i do buy into 100% but they dont back it up with explicit examples, metaphors, analogys & illustsrations which is the only way the mind can truly understand. you ask some of these guys to explain themselves, & they give me some b.s. answer like;"well the reason you dont understand is because your still living in effect." ok i got it, now freakin illustrate how to i get out of the effect mentality once im under attack mentaly or physically.

[Neurotic1]

Hi jOhnny

I disagree that this is the wrong place to discuss the matter - awareness is important. [/left]

Yes I agree with you. What I had meant to say was that IMO I don't think it is necessarily useful or ethical to discuss exact methods of psychologically harming others overtly - in terms of giving posters the tools to do just that. If they want the tools badly enough, they can find them elsewhere. In terms of discussion of psychological attacks I completely agree with you, it is a useful discussion and surely valuable to discuss methods of countering this attack, most of which can be utilised without having to explore detailed ways of psyhcologically harming others. For those who wish to counter an attack with another, I believe the key is observation - to take an objective standpoint and observe them. Their weaknesses will soon become apparent and any weaknesses can be exploited and combined. I have found this useful and effective on very rare occasions, when left with little alternative and only then when I have felt it a balanced response to the level of abuse I have been receiving. Otherwise, I would prefer to indulge in some behaviour modification, without the need to 'damage' my 'assailant' - as they are already damaged as is implied in their need to attack.

[solaris152000]

When you say pycologically attack do u mean just verbal abuse, or a battle of lead and pace and emmeded commands and such. That would be "fun".

[Neurotic1]

When you say pycologically attack do u mean just verbal abuse, or a battle of lead and pace and emmeded commands and such. That would be "fun".
Psychological attacks take many forms. They need not involve spoken language at all. Indeed some of the most effective can be conducted without words yes? Personally I would find more 'fun' in careful pacing, leading and embedding of suggestions such that the provoking 'attacker' no longer had the need or desire to attack. That would provide me with more long lasting entertainment and would definitely take more skill than a counteractive assault. I suppose I prefer that option because it would leave me without an obvious responsibility for someone elses suffering, no matter if they deserved to suffer or not.

Perhaps I have misjudged the question and I am aware that I am making presuppositions about the nature of the verbal attacks cited in the original question as little explicit information has been offered.