Questions for Terry, Merlin, Don, and Docresults

[Illuminate]

The names in question are not a reflection of someone’s ability or effectiveness as a person, they are simply my belief as to who has influenced me the most within my short period of time here at Hypnosis Forum and if I have overlooked you then I am sorry. Personally - I wish to become the best person that I can be and modeling seems to be, at least for the moment, the most effective tool in accomplishing this within the shortest period of time. I have not had professional one on one training in the area of NLP, I know that I will require this in order to become exceptionally effective at modeling; I am simply doing what I can with what I have at the moment. With that in mind, I wish to discover the macro-strategy of influence used by Terry, Merlin, Don, and Docresults. Can these people in question please respond to this post honestly and objectively with answers to these questions?

1. When “going meta” on the process of your communication, which occurs first, second, third, etc within the VAKOG projection of your mind? What are some of the submodalities of this strategy?

2. What are your beliefs in your involvement with people, who do you believe yourself to be in an interaction where you have the greatest amount of self-perceived influence?

3. What is your personal mission in life? If you were to sum up one reason as to why you’re motivated to do what you do what would it be? How did you come to choose this mission?

4. What process do you use in effectively repulsing certain actions and behaviors from yourself? What is your process in choosing which actions will be repulsed and which will be attracted within your life?

I may be missing certain questions in gathering information for effectively modeling another person, if you perceive this is the case then guide me in that direction. If you find things then please add and answer them.

I know the responses to this post will be lengthy if answered in their entirety so ahead of time, thanks for the help.

[Poodle]

1. When “going meta” on the process of your communication, which occurs first, second, third, etc within the VAKOG projection of your mind? What are some of the submodalities of this strategy? Meta Programming is a level of mental programming that determines how we sort, orient to, and chunk experiences. Our meta programs are more abstract than our specific strategies for thinking and define our general approach to a particular issue rather than the details of our thinking process. Submodalities simply describe the Modalities you have listed.

2. What are your beliefs in your involvement with people, who do you believe yourself to be in an interaction where you have the greatest amount of self-perceived influence? With other people we can be in rapport and we can elicit states from the other person and anchor them. I believe I can always have the greatest amount of influence as I was taught how to do it. Whether or not I wish to is another matter.

3. What is your personal mission in life? If you were to sum up one reason as to why you’re motivated to do what you do what would it be? How did you come to choose this mission?
Mission in life: Be the best NLP Trainer and Hypnotherapy Instructor. I chose this mission as it totally changed my life for the better so I am passing the same life altering opportunities on to others.

4. What process do you use in effectively repulsing certain actions and behaviors from yourself? What is your process in choosing which actions will be repulsed and which will be attracted within your life? Now let's back up a second here and get down to the basic rules of NLP. Every behavior is useful in some context. We are the creators of our experience. The outcome is the true intention of all behaviour which makes our outcomes the behavioral maps of our beliefs. The focus of our attention determines the direction in which we will go (where our energy and resources are spent). Looking for the opportunity in EVERY situation is usually more useful than looking for what is wrong. Our behaviour always gets some kind of results - desired or undesired. All information can be utilized to adjust our behaviour toward our outcomes. It is only when we label and judge rather than understand and use experience that we cut short opportunities for success.

I may be missing certain questions in gathering information for effectively modeling another person, if you perceive this is the case then guide me in that direction. If you find things then please add and answer them.

I know the responses to this post will be lengthy if answered in their entirety so ahead of time, thanks for the help.

Now you are writing about modeling another person. Modeling is very simple: observe and map the SUCCESSFUL BEHAVIOURS of other people.

I'm not Merlin, Skip, Terry or Houston. I am Pood. :)

[Illuminate]

Meta Programming is a level of mental programming that determines how we sort, orient to, and chunk experiences. Our meta programs are more abstract than our specific strategies for thinking and define our general approach to a particular issue rather than the details of our thinking process. Submodalities simply describe the Modalities you have listed.


What I meant to say is how do you communicate with your process of communication, in other words how do you find something that isn't working for the benefit of your outcome and how do you go about changing that on a personal level (doesn't have to be through NLP)? Is it possible that by modeling someone's modalities and submodalities that one can effectively reach the same outcome as them in a particular issue?

[Poodle]

There are lots of "techniques" in NLP to get you where you want to be w/o modeling.

One of my original trainers and I really like Eric Clapton. She decided to "model" him. Now obviously he was not there in person and what we were wanting was his guitar genius so the hand patterns were studied in minute detail by watching lots of videos. It worked but only for short periods of time...like a few good licks. Now for me, she was a model (she had studied a lot of ballet) and it was the sound of her voice that was the cue for me as she had a very different way of speaking.

When you attend your trainings all will be revealed and you will have lots of fun too.

Be well,
Pood

[Connie]

He doesn't want my opinion, so he's not getting it!!

[Simple Guy]

Those interested in modeling,

Dilts has a worthwhile article on his site called: "Introduction to:
A Proposed Dinstinction for Neuro-Linguistic Programming."

[Merlin]

Not Skip either. :(

[Poodle]

and does not know who's who around here and who does what.

Did have Docresults correct though and perhaps our lovely Merlin.

[Soren K (existing)]

I'm not Merlin, Skip, Terry or Houston. I am Pood. :)

And there is only one Pood! (and she is indescribably cool, wonderful, excellent and quite remarkable lady, who I admire, and that was yet another cool post, ty).

[Illuminate]

Obviously a Noob
and does not know who's who around here and who does what.

Did have Docresults correct though and perhaps our lovely Merlin.


It seems to me, though I may be wrong, that a lot of people here have intellectual arrogance. Yes I am new here, hence the reason I asked a question and got nothing that I perceived as useful from anyone but Simple Guy. Now, I simply have a desire to leave but will stay here until I “fit in” or whatever. As I said within my first post, those were the people whom, after reading some of what they had written, influenced me the most. I did not mean to offend anyone with my post, I simply wanted to learn and have done that in a different way than was expected.

I know there are a lot of great people here, with all kinds of certificates, PhD’s and the like; I am not one of them. I am just a twenty four year old guy that just got my associates in communication and I currently do not have the same opportunities as a lot of you. I am here to learn how to bring those things in my life regardless of my upbringing or self imposed limitations.

[Simple Guy]

Hi Illuminate,

I've no desire to see you leave, nor to see you compelled to fit in.
Sometimes, modeling is a good way for someone to go who wants
to affect self-change. Sometimes, it isn't the most efficacious path,
and, if it encourages imitation at the expense of individuality, well...
From a quick perusal of your posts, it seems that working one-on-
one with a qualified professional would be the path most likely to
be most helpful to you. -- The real work isn't intellectual, but experiential.
My two cents. Not that you asked.

[Poodle]

noooowwwww back to our original poster. There is a difference between NLP and hypnosis. You were asking Terry about something he has never studied. Modeling comes under the heading of NLP. I believe Don may be learning it now due to some of his answers but I also believe that hypnosis is Don's first love when it comes to "choice". Docresults is a master at both NLP and hypnosis as is Skip, Merlin, Connie, Me too. This means that we teach the subjects. We come from different schools of training and therefore there are some differing ideas except that Connie and I have trained with a lot of the same people.

I believe I explained what modeling is in the NLP world and how I have used it for mastrey of a few items. If not, then I completely misunderstood your question. I lso gave you some basic NLP beliefs. What I wrote to you about modeling is from the originator - Dr. Richard Bandler and if you would rather read a book by someone that has studied under him, by all means do it.

It's unnecessary to flee from this place. You may just accidently learn a few things if you hang around. We get into some pretty good discussions on occasion.

It is only when we label and judge rather than understand and use experience that we cut short opportunities for success.

It seems to me that you are labeling and judging rather than understanding and using the experience so in essence you are cutting short your opportunities for success.

Stay well,
Poodle :)

[Merlin]

The true meaning of a communication may be found in the response you get.
I didn't even answer your OP yet. Just this one.
My post was in response to Connie.
But you have to use the forum's threaded mode to see that :)

[Illuminate]

How exactly would you say that I am judging and labeling and not learning from my experience? I don't like it when someone "labels" me or places me into a group that most of it's members have no sense at all. You called me a noob, i took that to have negative connatations. Now i know from pevious experience that i am by no means stupid, yet another word for noob would be such...yes? You say that i am incapable of understanding, i don't think this is true either since i now understand that you sometimes come off as a ***** when you probably think you're trying to help.
now remember, don't judge...don't label....just understand.

Be well,
Aaron

[Merlin]

I can't speak for Pood, she does that herself.
However, noob is short for new~bie.
A person new to something.
It is not negative, as we all were noobs once, and still are in many areas of life.
certainly noob does not equate to stupid :)

[Henrik]

I've always thought there was a difference between a noob and a newbie, a noob being an angry, demanding newbie with little or no interest in learning.

Henrik

[Don]

English is a remarkable language in that it grows and changes almost as you watch. New French words, technically, must be accepted by the French Academy. English, much like the character in Alice, means whatever you want it to mean. The allows English to change very quickly, but also allows for miscommunication if meanings aren't clearly delineated.

If I were to say "Your are bad," it might mean that you are not a good person or that you are very clever. The term "quantum leap" (or "quantum jump") originally meant the smallest discernible change, but now means an enormous change.

Thus is is that the term that began as "newbie" has gone through numerous changes. "Newbie" or "Newb" is often confused with "noob" or n00b." Most people use them interchangeably. However they classically (if I can use that term in this case) do have a different meaning.

Newbies or Newbs are those who are new to some task and are very beginner at it, possibly a little overconfident about it, but they are willing to learn and fix their errors to move out of that stage.

Noobs little of a subject, think they know everything, and have no desire to learn anything else. They expect others to do work for them as if they are so superior that they deserve the free labor of others, and they expect to get praised for it.

Noobs can usually be found trying to intimidate others on internet forums, usually by repetition of errors and personal insults. They mostly appear on weekends and during breaks in the school year. They often write using their own terms and spelling, a variant of hacker-speak known as "noobish." Writing noobish exposes a person for being both a fool and a know-it-all.

A good way to identify a noob (bad) vs. a newb (good) is to tell them (or have an authority tell them) which rule they are unknowingly breaking. If they respond with an apology and fix it, they are probably not a noob. If they react by insulting everything around them in rapid noobish and causing general mayhem, it is because they are a noob and have had a small seizure due to their inability to understand what is happening.

If you want to insult a noob, refer to them as a n00b.

At this point, my guess is that people here who have referred to others as "noobs" when they meant "newbs" did so out of ignorance, not malice.

[mojczak]

"New French words, technically, must be accepted by the French Academy"

Thanks for specifying, technically. But I must say that I have do disagree with that. As a french canadian, student in litterature, we say "d'la marde l'académie". Burn the old sell-outs, please. L'académie française has it's dictionary, but more and more it's loosing face to a more popular view, especially here in Quebec, where we didn't take well that they decide to put english words, coined as englisisms, but accepted nonetheless in their good ol' waste of paper.

my unrelated 2 cents

[Merlin]

Well, perhaps I stand corrected.
I've never used it that way, or seen it used that way.

[Henrik]

Well, perhaps I stand corrected.
I've never used it that way, or seen it used that way.

I never thought you did :). I was just wondering whether my idea of a noob was all wrong. Don explained it well I believe.

Henrik

[Don]

You're probably correct. The world is changing far too rapidly to wait for the traditionally slow (almost moribund) academy to pass approval.

Of course, the French Canadians usually follow their own rules, anyway, eh?
:)



"New French words, technically, must be accepted by the French Academy"

Thanks for specifying, technically. But I must say that I have do disagree with that. As a french canadian, student in litterature, we say "d'la marde l'académie". Burn the old sell-outs, please. L'académie française has it's dictionary, but more and more it's loosing face to a more popular view, especially here in Quebec, where we didn't take well that they decide to put english words, coined as englisisms, but accepted nonetheless in their good ol' waste of paper.

my unrelated 2 cents

[Merlin]

Timing
I missed Don's post.
Thanks :)

[mojczak]

"Of course, the French Canadians usually follow their own rules, anyway, eh?"

Wish it were *sigh*. But most french canadians nowadays are pretty content with their lifestyles, even tho they whine a lot, and feel confident in their hollow sense of nationalistic pride(good thing tho, wouldn't want to see a Free Quebec with the present mentality... or maybe it should, then it would crash then people might acquire some sort of common sense and start working for real on their autonomy stop flattering themselves in their false open-mindness hiding a trully conservative racist and mysogynous streak). But it's the image we tend to project, yes. At least some try!

[Poodle]

is that it is a word used in the UK to describe a person new to something and definitely does not indicate stupid or any other negative word. As Merlin has stated, we were all noobs at one time and on some subject matters we still are.

What's the old saying? A rose by any other name is still rose?

Pood

[Illuminate]

Meaning is sometimes lost over the internet due to a lack of body language and tonality. I personally do not see how I was being judgmental or labeling and not understanding previous to my last post, but to each his/her own. My apologies go out to poodle as it does look like she or he was attempting to help on the original issue and a misunderstanding could have been the case.


On modeling – so it is possible to model someone else without being upfront with them and asking them specific questions, for example, by observing their behavior? And if that is the case which I am supposing it is, then I am duly limited on the amount of behavior that I can observe as this is an internet forum with no videos. Save interacting with a trainer face to face, what are some of the things that I can do to improve my ability to model another’s success?

[Soren K (existing)]

Meaning is sometimes lost over the internet due to a lack of body language and tonality.

Smart thinking, and not only this loss, but also individual perceptions and associations. If I finish my post with 'Regards, Soren', and you're feeling cynical - perhaps you may end up thinking I'm being dismissive. If you think this, and behave a certain way accordingly, then I have failed in my communication to say something as intended. In NLP fundamentals - the meaning of the communication is the response you get. If I attempt to fit all of my meanings into a set of neatly defined arrangements, I may forever have to preach my gospel of appropriate usage. Burdensome, to say the least. Your model must fit mine. So you will get people who will tell you what things mean. Perhaps they will be persuasive and you may accept their definitions. Yet, as an individual in possession of reflexive consciousness (def: consciousness that realises itself as conscious), you can explore definitions and enter various models of reality - some or other more useful than one another at one time or another, and find yourself really communicating, getting the response you want - whose model will you choose, I wonder? Thus, you can be a sucker to definitions and think that the meanings are fixed, or, take the account as an expression of the world view which those definition explicate: what manner of successes, then, will you unfold? This (in part) is NLP, which belongs to itself as an explantory model. Poodle is right when she says: welcome to our world. There are many worldviews associated with noob. Which worldview was yours, which is yours now. How did or do your represent it? Maybe the responses were just right. Maybe there is more yet to be said. Or perhaps you've been reframed. Did you enter a different model of reality - noob, newb, n00b, nube, nueb. Did they put you down? Did they intend to? Were you persuaded? How will you continue the game? :cool:

Regards,
Soren

[Terry]

illuminate, I have just found your posting, I have been absent for some time, and missed it when I got back.
First of all, I do not practise NLP, only old fashioned hypnosis which includes much of what is now taught separately, and in more depth and called NLP. However, when it comes to modelling, it seems to me that you have little need to study NLP as if knowledge of it was mandatory in order to change into a better person. By all means learn it, no learning is wasted if it holds your interest. On the other hand, anything about another person which peeks your interest, and causes you to want to change will naturally bring about such results over time.
For example, you read posts here and the personality of the poster comes across loud and clear if you read with interest and depth, and eventually you will change and become more like the persons you most admire. I learn from almost all who post here, they are respected friends whom I admire for differing reasons, and each has something to contribute to me just as I contribute to them. We are constantly changing through our experiences via the senses, so nothing is static, and NLP or no NLP, you will eventually become a better person if you rub shoulders with those you admire, and shun those who lack in those areas you wish to excel in...
I do my best to avoid labels since I find them open to missunderstandings, so though I see much value in NLP I preffer to explain without using that label or any other label for something I see as a natural event... Hope this proves helpfull.....