Past Life Regression

[Unregistered1]

HI,

I was just wondering what the scientific explanation was for past life regression using hypnotherapy.

I believe in science and like to see things proven beyond all doubt if i am to entertain any thought that it may be true. But time and time again i see people conning people out of their money by telling them they can experience their past lives through hypnotherapy!!?? Which seems crazy to me, however there have been some people actually claim it is for real, i was wondering if any profesisonal hypnotherapists out there could explain what is happening in the mind to make people think they have past lives

[Terry (existing)]

Vivid imagination perhaps? Fact that it is true perhaps? Take your pick. If proof is what you are looking for however, we don't got it.....

[Don]

Guest, you're assuming that the validity of working with past lives lies in proving that such past lives occurred in objective time and space. That is what debunkers usually focus on. It doesn't concern me--or most professional hypnotherapists--at all.

Let's assume, for a moment, that past lives have an objective reality. As I'm sure you've seen, most people don't remember every aspect of past lives. So why is it that people only remember certain aspects of past lives?

The answer, in my opinion, is that it is simply one way that the unconscious can communicate with the conscious. It is a way of getting messages to the conscious that the subconscious believes the conscious is ready to hear, but not in a direct fashion.

So the value in working with past lives is not whether the memories "actually occured," but what the experience means to the person today and for the future.

You see, as a hypnotherapist, the use of past lives can be a valuable tool for helping people change and improve their lives today and in the future. The "objective reality" of past lives, for professional work, is irrelevant.

[Merlin]

>I was just wondering what the scientific explanation was for past life regression using hypnotherapy.

I don't think there is anything in the way of a 'scientific explanation'

>I believe in science and like to see things proven beyond all doubt

That could be very limiting at times. There are many things which work or are useful that 'science' doesn't have an explanation for yet.

>But time and time again i see people conning people out of their money by telling them they can experience their past lives

why 'conning'?
If you enjoy or otherwise gain from the experience, isn't that enough?

>Which seems crazy to me

well, maybe you shouldn't then :)

> i was wondering if any profesisonal hypnotherapists out there could explain what is happening in the mind to make people think they have past lives

There are many possibilities, from psichic (esp) connection, to spirit posession, to actual memories, to imprinting, to imagination, to...

It's goof sometimes for therapy (it works at times) and it's good sometimes for entertainment.

[Jack]

Hello,

It has been said succinctly that hypnotherapists don't really care whether past lives are 'true' or not, and I would concur.

But I don't think that was your question. You want a scientific explanation for past lives. Personally, I don't care if an explantion is scientific or not. I only care if it is relatively true, and the two are not always the same. Science can never prove anything 'beyond all doubt' simply because there is always missing knowledge which may be acquired later, or not. The earth was flat 'beyond all doubt'.

Scientifically, you could say that because people are made of living cells and some of those cells are passed on in the sperm and the ovum then each cell may have a memory of past cells of which it is a descendent, and therefore a memory of the life in which those cells played a major part.

Philosophically, you could say that in a chaotic existence, there may be parallel universes or dimensions and past lives are 'leakages'.

Psychologically, you could say that there is a universal consciousness of which we are all a part and that time is irrelevent to this universal 'mind'.

Theologically, you could say that we all have souls and they migrate from body to body as death occurs, carrying memories with them.

Hypnotherapeutically(!), you could say that a client may have a need for a past life to resolve a problem in this one. My clients often wander off into 'past lives' to find their answers, and that is ok with me.

There is no 'beyond doubt' proof of anything, only the best guess of human beings based upon experience at the time of the guess.

I don't know whether this has helped, or not.

Jack

[HypnoSoft]

Perhaps the search for a past life is an implicit suggestion that a past life is there for the finding. As in other forms of suggestion, the person will tend to create an acceptable result to satisfy the requirements of the suggestion. This was one of the "laws" of suggestion arising from the New Nancy School, written about by Baudouin.

I would agree that the value is in the content of the past life, not the objective reality of its existence. The danger is that the person will not see it as metaphor, but as an irresistible force that has actually caused their current difficulties. Instead of empowering, it could weaken. A skilled and honest therapist could make it work, but I always felt that the potential downside wasn't worth the risk, especially because you could use similar techniques for nearly the same result.

[Don]

That's not much different from the concept that karma is punishment for what you have done rather than a system for self-education and understanding.

The problem is not with karma or past lives, but with lack of understanding and spiritual intimidation. The "cure" is education, but in the West, at least, anything spiritual or mental is removed from the education system until post-high school, and most people don't continue their education that far.

[Brian]

Hi there, I just stumbled across this thread while googling for hypnotherapy and past-life regression, thought I'd share some stuff I've read recently about it...

In "The Holographic Universe (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060922583/qid=1122278960/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-4548648-8324019?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)" (Michael Talbot, 1991), the author discusses the work of a number of doctors who have investigated past-life regression, and have amassed a collection of evidence strongly suggestive of reincarnation as an actual phenomenon.

"Many of the subjects [...] gave uncannily accurate historical details about the time in which they had lived. Some even spoke languages unknown to them. While reliving an apparent past life as a Viking, one man, a thirty-seven-year-old behavioural scientist, shouted words that linguistic authorities later identified as Old Norse. After being regressed to an ancient Persian lifetime, the same man began to write in a spidery, Arabic-style script that an expert in Near Eastern languages identified as an authentic representation of Sassanid Pahlavi, a long extinct Mesopotamian tongue that flourished between AD 226 and 651."

[...]

"Stevenson [...] has found that a person's previous incarnation can apparently affect the very shape and structure of their current physical body. [...] Most numerous among these are physical injuries carrying over as scars or birthmarks. In one case, a boy who remembered being murdered in his former life by having his throat slit still had a long reddish mark resembling a scar across his neck. [...] And in another, a boy had a birthmark resembling a surgical scar complete with a line of red marks resembling stich wounds, in the exact location where his previous personality had had surgery.

In fact, Stevenson has gathered hundreds of such cases and is currently compiling a four-volume study of the phenomenon. In some of the cases he has even been able to obtain hospital and/or autopsy reports of the deceased personality and show that such injuries not only occured, but were in the exact location of the present birthmark or deformity."

[...]

"But Whitton's most remarkable discovery came when he regressed subjects to the interim between lives, a dazzling, light-filled realm in which there was 'no such thing as time or space as we know it.' According to his subjects, part of the purpose of this realm was to allow them to plan their next life, to literally sketch out the important events and circumstances that would befall them in the future."

So.. believe what you want, but someone suddenly picking up a foreign (and extinct) tongue clearly cannot be explained by "conventional" theories involving purely fantasy and imagination. Fascinating stuff... perhaps you understand why I'm googling for it now. ;)

As for the scientific theories behind this and other "mysteries"... they do exist but I wouldn't know how to begin summarizing them in a simple post like this. One of the better (and more recent) books I've read on this is "The Field (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060931175/qid=1122279710/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-4548648-8324019?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)", by Lynne McTaggart. (Although I don't think this book deals specifically with past-lives, it is more an examination of recent studies about the nature of quantum reality in general)

[Terry (existing)]

Too each his own, is a strongly held belief in our field, and you have the right to study and believe what you wish. On the other hand, we do not have any right to promote that which is not believed, hence the thread on "clean language", which you should have read before posting this one..... We neither promote nor refute the beliefs of a client, and if they ask us we will give them access to past lives. On the other hand, we may not promote this belief, in such a manner as to put thoughts into the mind of a client which are not intended as therapy. "Past Lives Regression" is a theraputic method of helping a client achieve results, and as such we have no need to believe in Reincarnation to use it. If this is what you are looking for, contact a local practitioner, distance therapy is not an option.

[Brian]

we do not have any right to promote that which is not believed, hence the thread on "clean language", which you should have read before posting this one
Pardon me, is this a criticism of my post?

I understand the importance of not "directing" a subject (although I am unable to find the "clean language" post you refer to, even with a keyword search), but I don't see how that is relevant here. For instance, in the case above, even if the notion of being a Viking in a past life was externally implanted somehow, it wouldn't explain the subject's fluency in the language. Thus, it seems logical to speculate that something else could be happening.

If such speculation is not welcome here, how do you justify the other speculative posts in this thread? Is promoting a belief that we create these past-life experiences from our own imagination somehow more acceptable than suggesting they could come from elsewhere? I was simply trying to provide avenues of research for the original poster.

[Don]

I didn't see it as a criticism of any post in this thread.

Terry begins by saying that you have the right to believe any way you wish, and that is why this thread is here, to allow discussion on the topic.

But, as Terry points out, with therapy, the goal in his (and my) opinion is not to make clients agree with our beliefs and abandon their own. That is why the question of "clean language" (in another past life/reincarnation thread) is important.

If you ask, "did that happen in a past life?" about an event revealed during hypnotherapy, you are not being clean and inserting your own beliefs. This is different than asking "when did this happen?" which allows the client to determine time by himself or herself.

This is no different than any discussion of forensic hypnosis and how to assist a person in regaining memories without inserting them or having the client mistake fantasies for actual memories.

In the other thread, one poster has determined that past lives exist and must follow certain rules, and, it would seem, has no problem using language which others here believe would insert those beliefs in clients. I personally consider such activity on the part of any person claiming to be a hypnotherapist not only bad technique, but ethically questionable.

[Terry (existing)]

[QUOTE=Brian]Pardon me, is this a criticism of my post?

If you choose to make it so, then indeed it is, though my suggestion that you should have read another thread before posting was intended to suggest that if you had, you would have had second thoughts, or perhaps a better grasp of the situation....

Your point..........
I understand the importance of not "directing" a subject (although I am unable to find the "clean language" post you refer to, even with a keyword search), but I don't see how that is relevant here. For instance, in the case above, even if the notion of being a Viking in a past life was externally implanted somehow, it wouldn't explain the subject's fluency in the language. Thus, it seems logical to speculate that something else could be happening.

My reply...........
The point of my post, was to ensure an understanding of the difference between a therapy system, and a belief in Reincarnation. It would seem to me that yours was a blurring of the difference between the two..In fact, a plug for such a belief, was it not?

Your complaint.......
If such speculation is not welcome here, how do you justify the other speculative posts in this thread? Is promoting a belief that we create these past-life experiences from our own imagination somehow more acceptable than suggesting they could come from elsewhere? I was simply trying to provide avenues of research for the original poster.

My explanation..........
All comments are welcome so long as they make it clear that there is an understanding of the subject. Your suggestion that you were offering an avenue for research on the part of the original poster, makes no sense, while your aproach to this subject indicates a lack of knowledge which might well lead to misunderstanding by those less knowledgeable. If you feel unjustly treated, in that you feel I picked on you and not others, how about if I apply my comments to all who lack an understanding, yet still post as if they knew the answer? Normally, when I see the blind leading the blind, I stand back, but in this case I feel clarity is important for all our sakes......I reject Reincarnation, but would render Past lives therapy to a client on request, or even suggest it with proper explanation if I felt it would help, but mixing the two is NOT acceptable........

[Brian]

First of all, I want to thank both of you for taking the time to write thoughtful replies, I very much appreciate it. I hope you don't think I am here to cause problems or "rock the boat"; I was simply trying to share information with a curious party. I apologize if I did not do so in the most appropriate fashion. For the record, I am not a hypnotherapist, I'm an IT developer/analyst.

But, as Terry points out, with therapy, the goal in his (and my) opinion is not to make clients agree with our beliefs and abandon their own. That is why the question of "clean language" (in another past life/reincarnation thread) is important.
I understand and agree completely, in the context of therapy.

But this is not therapy, it is an open web forum. Are you suggesting that ANY information which has the potential to alter someone's beliefs is forbidden here? That seems pretty restrictive.

It would seem to me that [your post] was a blurring of the difference between the two..In fact, a plug for such a belief, was it not?

[...]

how about if I apply my comments to all who lack an understanding, yet still post as if they knew the answer?
I do not "believe" in reincarnation. I am however, open to the possibility. How did I "post as if [I] knew the answer"? I was quite careful to use terms such as "suggestive", "speculative", etc.

Is the problem that I provided actual examples which support such speculation?


your aproach to this subject indicates a lack of knowledge which might well lead to misunderstanding by those less knowledgeable.
Can you please expand on this? How does my approach indicate a lack of understanding, and what would be a better approach to investigating this subject? I ask in earnest.

I reject Reincarnation, but would render Past lives therapy to a client on request, or even suggest it with proper explanation
How do you know what the "proper explanation" actually IS? Isn't rejection of reincarnation a belief of your own which you are "plugging", so to speak?

[intune]

As far as regression goes it is an interesting subject and any clients I have that take a regression session with me are told to be open and aware that what they may or may not experience could be true, could be their interpretation of historical facts that they may have heard during thier life, could be made up by them for what ever reason. It doesn't really matter, but to be curious is the main thing, to see or feel the story being reveled.

After all we are, and everything is, according to present science made up of atoms and molecules which miraculously connect up to make everything we know on or in planet earth. It is believed there is a total number (unless we get hit with metorites which brings more) so therefore over the millennia these have been recycled and at some point we have all had a part of everything, including anything that fell apart at least a few hundred years ago. So it is quite likely I have at least one atom from Bethoven, Marie Antonette, a dinosaur and even some cavemans first intrepetation of a wheel. Maybe this is where research is going now to identify why these atoms carry memories. No proof but interesting scientific conjecture, after all most science is based on a small amount of fact and a lot of scientific lateral thinking, which eventually gets approved or disapproved.

[Don]

Actually, intune, the incredible number of atoms and molecules in the universe make it highly unlikely that you have molecules or atoms from those famous people. Possible? Yes. Likely? No. What is true is that we are all composed of the same type of matter, and in that sense, everything is physically related. Or as they said on Bab5, "we are all star stuff."

When it comes to the objective reality of past lives, the problem comes when assuming that everything in the universe is necessarily physical (i.e., matter or energy). These are the fields that scientists investigate. Mystics investigate the nonphysical or what Aristotle called meta (beyond) physical.

For thousands of years, mystics have given explanations for why we only have fleeting memories of past lives. Considering the current holographic paradigm of cellular memory, if it were true that memories are in molecules, then we should have full memories of past lives, not glimpses.

In the Kabalah, the non-physical essense of the individual remains after death, but the memories are lost. Only certain ones which are important to the next incarnation are retained.

Another theory gaining popularity is that all souls and memories go into a sort of metaphysical soup after death. When a soul is ready to incarnate, it is able to take from that soup whatever memories are necessary for spiritual advancement. If this is accurate, it could explain why different people claim to have had the past life of a famous person.

Personally, I rarely have had any person, while regressed, experience a famous past life. On the very rare occasions where it has occurred, they usually highly doubt that it was real and are more interested in why they would have come up with that. On the other hand, people who have told me that they were somone famous--and frequently they claim to have been several famous people--do so without being hypnotized and simply claim it.

A famous mystic, known as Dion Fortune, wrote that a famous past life doesn't give popularity and power to a current life so much as make you wonder what you did in the past to end up in your more lowly state.