Igor Ledochowski -Power of Conversational Hypnosis

[bonecollector]

Checking all the critics and reviews [Igor Ledochowski's conversational course] it seems this product it rated highly by customers and even fellow hypnotherapists and Doctors even.

Apparently Igor is a master hypnotist and one of the bigger names in the hypnosis field. Having taking secrets from the Milton erickson society hes managed to include that info on a sellable course, instead of the thousands he charges for a face to face session.

As i naturally am im sceptical of these reviews sites and was wondering what your experiences were of this product?

[Poodle]

This is called "The Milton Model" and is something every student of NLP learns. It's a mandatory part of the course. Some people like to teach it separately but it still boils down to The Milton Model. You can read all about it in Patterns of the Hypnotic Techniques of Milton H. Erickson, MD by Bandler and Grinder. (Two volumes)

There is one in London that was sending out free ebooks for study and then one goes to study with him for a week for a tiny little amount of money -- US$5,000. As is said in the USA - There's a sucker born every minute.

The owner of this Forum used to offer a degree in Ericksonian Hypnosis. If you would care to really continue your career I'm sure he would be happy to have you join one of his classes.

PS: You know better than to post commercial links on this Forum. You have been here long enough to know that!! I will say Don is nicer than I as I would have deleted your entire post as you are spamming.

Pood :(

[Terry]

Actually I find the post interesting, not because of the content itself, but because of what it reveals about the poster.
Observe the sig: and read the preceeding posts. "Bone Collector" collects the bones of hypnosis, "books" and the "cheap stuff", but never once assumes he might be better off looking for the meat, "training". Why bother when he can ask questions here and hope to become experienced via osmosis? :)

[Soren K (existing)]

There is one in London that was sending out free ebooks for study and then one goes to study with him for a week for a tiny little amount of money -- US$5,000. As is said in the USA - There's a sucker born every minute.


Hey Pood, I don't know if you referring to the one I think you might be, but I know you got the hump with the SB course. If it is, to be fair, I've been signed onto it now for a couple of months now and I have to say it's more than just a couple of free ebooks for study - its a highly interactive learning schedule and there is no obligation to study face to face unless you want the practicioner cert. You don't get a practitioner cert without the live training, you do, however, get an academic cert, but for me, that's a 'who cares', I'm gonna say its one of the best Ericksonian resources on the net and there is lots to be learned there. This is not to knock the value of live training, which is indeed very much more valuable than anything you get by way tape, vid, or literature. However, alongside such training, wherever that might be from, a lot of familiar territory is covered and expanded using tape, vid and literature, and requires involvement in a community of persons with a variety of different skillsets, in forum format, and instant message, skype video, audio or text chat. If you want to learn more about Erickson, its a great place to do it, and you get to keep your pennies for whatever you like to spend it on - absolutely nothing to pay - you can even test your understanding of the material in the weekly multiple choice style (actually dual choice TvF) tests. Also contributing to your overall assessment, the community are responsible to one another for assessing and scoring the quality of contributions to the discussion topics assigned in the course of the week.

I got a new sig-line which I got from Frogs this weekend, which struck me quite profoundly and which I see in Bandler with integrity quite remarkably considering the variety of people he works with.

Soren
x

[bonecollector]

I dont even recall using a link to navigate away from this page to the product page itself. Im aware of those rules regarding links xD

One of two things must've happened.

1) typing some key "hotword" auto generated a link which seems unlikely

or

2) You see the whole post as a link which sounds hypocritical as there seem to be alot of posts regarding reading material and courses in these forums

[Poodle]

I'm sure you can read the reason it was deleted as well as I can.

By rereading your first post, I would guess you had a link to this Igor character and especially telling the world how you found him. There is no such thing as the Milton Erickson Society and I know most of the movers and shakers in the hypnosis world and sorry to say Igor is not among them.

Stay well,
Pood :)

[bluwizz]

I have only heard of this referrence in a sales pitch by someone. I have encountered Milton Erickson Institute of (the East bay area). Change the area in the parenthesis for whatever area you find them in.

At the one I listed I got to meet and work directly with Betty Alice Erickson who is one of Milton's Daughters and an excellent hypnotherapist and author of "Milton H. Erickson, An American Healer" which is an excellent book about Milton the person.


I have not found a Milton Erickson Society, but it would be easy for any one to establish one even for a while to attempt to get validation by using the Erickson name.

[Don]

There does seem to be an organization called NYSEPH The New York Milton H. Erickson Society for Psychotherapy and Hypnosis. They have a very expensive (IMO) set of courses which they call Ericksonian, but from their description appear to include lots of other (good) concepts.

[bonecollector]

Ok there seems to be a typo - In fact it was called the "Erickson foundation" not society.

If anyone actually paid attention you would find i was seeking some feedback from those who had tried this course.

It seems your perfectly content to see me as some advertisement tool when the last line of my first post shows different

Sigh.

[Poodle]

Have you read "Hope and Resiliency" by Dan Short and Betty Alice and Roxanna Erickson? It's one of "our" favorites.

Pood :)

[bluwizz]

Not yet, with these authors it will be worth reading.
Thanks.

Be in health.

[jimcole]

Think about it, his name is "Igor."

[reviewsnest]

Think about it, his name is "Igor."

Didn't get that one... :confused:

[Connie]

Hey, re: Igor.

I'm at his training right now. He's COOL!!! Very, very good. I like him. :)

[Connie]

Update. I REALLY like him.

So far, there's not much material that was unfamiliar, but I'm having massive amounts of fun. He's terrific.

[Simple Guy]

Hi Connie,

I can't comment about the training as I'm unfamiliar with the
trainer. But, there can be lots of value and enjoyment in GOOD
and "massive amounts of fun."

[Jack]

I don't know Igor L., but for anyone wishing to delve deeper I suggest that they Google his name. There they will find several websites dedicated to him and his methods. He seems to be excellent at self-publicity with sites such as 'Igor Led....ski Exposed' and 'Igor Led....ski Scam?' - both of which are simply marketing tools.

I have no idea if his methods are useful or not, but looking at the sites I would suggest that the language and structure used to sell the courses, books etc., is that of a marketeer, rather than a serious hypnotherapist, IMO. There are many such websites out there.

'Learn To Make People Do What You Want' does not inspire me with confidence, but there will always be people for whom the illusion of instant power over others is attractive.

Jack

[Connie]

Hi, Jack! I agree. But I want to stick up for Igor and what he's teaching. He's got a marketing partner who specializes in that stuff, and it's a pretty standard way of doing marketing letters/websites these days. I believe! Igor himself called his latest letter "cheesey."

I don't know about his CD courses and books, but THIS training, which is a Professional Hypnotherapist Certification Training is super professional, well thought out, well run, with wonderfull and useful tools taught, and the core beliefs he has match mine--pretty much precisely, about what we're trying to do here with this profession. It's about empowering people. It's about helping people. It's about being the best we can be. He's a good guy. He is incredibly nice. Sweet. He knows his stuff!!!!! I have good bozo radar. Igor is quality.

[Terry]

'Learn To Make People Do What You Want' does not inspire me with confidence, but there will always be people for whom the illusion of instant power over others is attractive.

Jack Well Jack, it he needs to write a book to instruct others to accomplish what most of us do naturally he is writing one that should be entitled, "instructions for dummies"... Of course it is not Hypnosis...

We can;t change the world unless we do it one person at a time, so let him write and profit from the dummies, I will have much more fun helping remove cancer for the earth one person at a time. :) and others here will have fun remembering that they helped me to set up my program....:cool:

Connie, never stop supporting those whom you have faith in, but do remember that Jack has a point, and we can only be true to ourselves, so the question is, IS IGOR what YOU see or what OTHERS see? I suspect he can;t be both since one is honest and the other is not... Oh yes, remember also, "Father knows best".....:D

McCain and Obama are responsible for the hatchet jobs their teams do to the other side even though they keep their hands clean to the public. Igor is responsible for what his promoter does and says, and you are welcome to show him this post and ASK!!! ;) I would love to give him the opportunity to defend his position, seems only fair to me.....

[Terry]

Good for you girl...:)

[Poodle]

as all I can find are CD's for sale. Is he going to have more? Send me a PM please. I'm really sure I would enjoy that.

[Connie]

Well, I did pose your question, Jack/Terry, to him today. He offers massive Q&A sessions, and I threw that one in! :) That a friend of mine had googled him and found the resultant advertising and marketing language a serious turn off and that I know that's not what he's all about. Here's what he said, paraphrased--I hope not too poorly.

He's aware that he's "losing people," but feels that "it (his niche marketing) works" to get more people than he's losing--and that once he has them, he sets them straight on the true power of hypnosis, that it lies not in control over people but rather helping and empowerment. And then there's people like me ( :) ) who go back and give the true story about him. I told him I was posting on this forum board about him and he seemed fine with that, noting that I'd probably said (ticking them off on his fingers), "sexy, attractive, brilliant..." (or words to those effects). Yes, I did! That's right.

I think he's wonderful as a hypnotherapist trainer. He's got the skills, no question, he's a wonderful communicator, he's got the personable "it factor," that charisma, he's got his head on straight, the honorable values. I LIKE him. In fact, I might take another training with him. I'm enjoying this training probably more than any training in the past, probably including Richard Bandler's.

[Jack]

Hello Connie, I am sure that Igor is a wonderful person, but there is an old saying that if one lies down with dogs one gets up with fleas.

It is disingenuous to disavow advertising and marketing done in your name and it is too easy. After all the beneficiary of any such marketing is the man himself. Personally, I dislike the tenor or such marketing since it always appeals to the most base instincts of the target audience and throws hypnosis and hypnotherapy back to the dark age of animal magnetism, mesmerism and 'Trilby' - the 'whoo whoo' factor - from which it has struggled so long to emerge.

What he is doing is not niche marketing. It is the exact opposite. The marketing seems to be avoiding intelligent enquiry IMO, and homing in to the broad base of the impressionable and gullible, as many such before him have done. He appears to be saying that the end justifies the means when you report that:

He's aware that he's "losing people," but feels that "it (his niche marketing) works" to get more people than he's losing--and that once he has them, he sets them straight on the true power of hypnosis, that it lies not in control over people but rather helping and empowerment.

If that is what he means to say then why say the opposite in the blurb? Does he say the opposite to 'get' more people? Is that honest? Does that represent 'honorable values?

And then there's people like me ( :) ) who go back and give the true story about him. I told him I was posting on this forum board about him and he seemed fine with that, noting that I'd probably said (ticking them off on his fingers), "sexy, attractive, brilliant..." (or words to those effects). Yes, I did! That's right

You won't like this Connie, but I like you and your enthusiasm, so I must be honest; have you considered what trance you are now in? With the greatest of possible respect you are talking as if Igor was the Second Coming, and I find it a little disturbing. All I ask, hopefully without being patronising, is that you examine how your mind is working at this moment.

'I gave him chocolate today, as an offering'

Ask yourself why you like him, apart from him being sexy, gorgeous, tall etc.
I understand that you will ignore everything I am saying here, wonder why I am writing it, and realise that I care for your wellbeing, and although we have never met consider you a friend, and this is what a friend does.

Jack

[Soren K (existing)]

I'm enjoying this training probably more than any training in the past, probably including Richard Bandler's.

:eek: what??????

A Blasphemer! How can this be!

Pood, what is the possibility of redemption here? ;)

It's a good thing to read a first-hand review and see it defended in spite of some heavyweight concern from respected individuals.

I guess in the end it's how much more efficiently does the machine run for these particular purposes with it's new software? that determine's the selection's real merit. Or, as some would have it, how ripe is the fruit from these particular trees...

[Don]

Hi, Jack and everyone else.

This is an interesting discussion. It seems to focus a lot on "I don't like his approach to advertising."

In short, it seems to be saying (to me) that some people are in a particular trance as to what is allowable and what is not when it comes to advertising.

Hmmmmm.

I've been involved with advertising for a long time. I've written thousands of advertising pieces. I looked at Igor's and this is my interpretation of it:

1) It's a great "direct response" piece. That is, it looks good to laypeople if they receive it in the mail or read it in a newspaper or magazine. I've seen (and written) lots of pieces just like it and they always receive a great response when they are sent via direct mail.

2) They are NOT designed for professional hypnotists. They ARE for laypeople. It's not an ad for "advanced hypnotic techniques for professionals." If it were, it would need an entirely different approach. That's why, as a professional (and in a certain type of trance), several people here find it repulsive. Similarly, as a trained advertising professional, I look at it and have a different response. Watch some cartoon shows on TV (at least here in the U.S.) that are directed toward children and see what you think about those ads. They're repulsive to an adult. They have children begging for the products advertised.

3) The person who wrote (or actually copied--I've seen 80%-90% of this material in other advertisements, even using similar design) is clueless when it comes to advertising on the internet. Pages that look good on paper do not necessarily look good on a monitor for a wide variety of psychological and physiological reasons. If the person doing the ad knew more about what to do on the internet, they would probably double their response rate--or more.

[Connie]

Hi, Don. And he DOES focus on direct mail, or so it seemed to me during the marketing discussion at the training.

Jack, I'd never ignore you! Don't be aburd. You are my friend and I read every word with care. Yes, I'm in a trance. Who isn't? :) Jack, it's not his looks that I'm responding to, at least that wasn't it initially. It's funny that the more I like what he says the more I like how he LOOKS, too. He's got great boots. I think he's attractive.

I'm having a great time. Soren, I didn't say this was the most valuable training (that's RB hands down), I'm saying this is the most FUN!!! And it is. I'm sure a lot of that is my attitude and sense of freedom here. I'm comfortable that whatever he bats our way I can hit out of the park, and not everyone in the training feels that way. Perhaps it's less "fun" for them. I'm stimulated by the course. I love being around people who are excellent at what they do. (That's why I like so many of you here!)

Off to another day of Igor with eagor-ness. (pun)

--Connie

[Terry]

Glad you brought up the subject as you did, everyone has the right to defend their position when challenged, and certainly he need not fit the mould of Jack or myself in order to be a quality person.
I do not agree with his position, but at least he has one, so nuf said, and glad you are having fun and learning more.....:)

[Soren K (existing)]

Soren, I didn't say this was the most valuable training (that's RB hands down), I'm saying this is the most FUN!!!

I was just pulling your leg really. :) If I had the cash, I'd spend a lot more time in trainings (although my disposable income has doubled this last year, which I'm pretty pleased about, still not saved up for my next training lol - I like spending the doh too much probably. The next training is all in hand though, next year I'll do something else with Richard and John, maybe some others too. However, I had a real insight about DHE this week. I think I understand what its about in a new and exciting way - timeline, location of submodal contents, activation of states in various contexts, directing things toward future ends... How long do you guys take to integrate a training? I'm milking this one for everything its got, but then maybe it's my Scottishness - still I think there's a fair bit of mileage left in this one yet.)

[skip]

"I only create that notion in their mind, so I can disabuse them of it ..."

Hummmm.

Could be, I suppose.

Connie I only offer one caveat.

We both know how powerful anchors are.

And someone who sets trust anchors, and then constantly fires them, will establish a feeling of trust ,whether or not they are trustworthy.

Many nlp adepts, Bandler included, establish and use 'wanna learn more' anchors.


Helps with the current training, and as a happy by product, future enrollment too.

I understand what you say you are feeling.

But as an NLPer we both know how easily feelings can be manipulated ... for our own good, as well as otherwise.

My best to you,

skip

[Poodle]

don't forget the BOR anchors too. Breen recently did a freebie on advanced anchoring. He may be better than Bandler.

[Jack]

Jack, I'd never ignore you! Don't be aburd. You are my friend and I read every word with care. Yes, I'm in a trance. Who isn't? :) .

Agreed. What you might ask yourself is if you were outside of your present trance looking in, what would you see? In some ways that is a silly question since you are entranced and that may be a closed loop, but if you have a friend who is an hypnotherapist, you could examine how you are right now.

Jack, it's not his looks that I'm responding to, at least that wasn't it initially. It's funny that the more I like what he says the more I like how he LOOKS, too. He's got great boots. I think he's attractive.

I have sent you a PM, Connie, concerning this, since it involves information not suitable for an open forum.

Jack

[Soren K (existing)]

don't forget the BOR anchors too. Breen recently did a freebie on advanced anchoring. He may be better than Bandler.

where can i get this Ma?

[Soren K (existing)]

I have sent you a PM... since it involves information not suitable for an open forum.

Yes, igor is actually extra terrestrial!

:)

[Poodle]

Milton was not always successful. Case in point -- he had to work with one man over 400 sessions just to get him into trance. That is not written in the books but should be. Merlin in her wisdom tried to tell me but my ears would not hear her words.

Thanks lady!! Lesson learned at last.

Humble - Pood

[Poodle]

She'll return to her senses and reality rightly enough when the class has worn off. I just wonder where "Hubs" is.

[Connie]

Hi, my sweetie pie is sitting next to me in the seminar room each day. We're avoiding each other for exercises, however, as we want the experience of lots of different people. We work together all the time, and this is a nice influx of new practice partners.

He likes the class as well, and he says: "Igor is fine, is doing a good job! He's following the standard NLP model for teaching. Just get up and you talk and something good will happen. And good things are happening."

[Jack]

Yes, igor is actually extra terrestrial!

:)

Just a technical reminisce, Soren. But the marketing has worked well, hasn't it? We are still talking about him...so I will stop right now.

Jack

[Soren K (existing)]

the marketing has worked well, hasn't it? We are still talking about him

the power of conversational hypnosis is detailed well in the works of Milton Erickson. B&G have modelled this well in Patterns of Milton V1 and V2. The Milton Model is part of any SNLP prac/master prac training.

Stephen Brooks online course is pretty good too (he trained/worked with Milton at one time) - probably there are a lot of other good trainers out there in this field, whatever works... get it on.

[Jack]

Milton was not always successful. Case in point -- he had to work with one man over 400 sessions just to get him into trance.


Can you imagine any client paying for 400 sessions without any result?
Erickson lied, just to make others feel better. OR, he was not very good at hypnosis.;)

Jack

[Don]

Respectfully, Jack, I think you may be in error.

Erickson was a psychiatrist, and part of his profession had him visiting hospitals (what used to be called "asylums" or even "insane asylums") where he would treat patients who had been given up upon by regular psychiatrists (who, at the time, actually did a lot more than dole out drugs). Some of his patients had been locked up for many years, so finally having success after 400 sessions would be a miracle compared to having the person sit around and not communicate at all for a decade.

Further, in such a situation, it wasn't that a client came to him seeking change. Rather, he came to patients having to first get them to communicate and then leading them to a better life in society when they realized it was time to change but they didn't know how. He'd build up trust so they could come to him for help.

He didn't lie. However, if a client came to me, seeking change, I certainly would have referred him or her out long before 400 sessions!

In another situation, he worked with a patient who had convinced himself that Erickson would never be able to get him into a trance. Erickson worked with him on this, making that belief even stronger. Then he sent in a student and told her to hypnotize the patient. It was accomplished in a few minutes.

Obviously, the client had built up a belief system that Erickson couldn't hypnotize him. Erickson worked with this so that the patient was sure that no matter what Erickson would do, Erickson--and Erickson alone--couldn't hypnotize him. He was left wide open for someone else, in this case a student, to hypnotize him.

Erickson did all of the preparation and the student just put on the finishing touches so Erickson could come back in and do the trance work.

Did Erickson actually hypnotize the patient? Well, he basically had someone else say "sleep," but the patient wouldn't have done anything with that induction suggestion if Erickson hadn't prepared him.

So I would say that Erickson knew what he was doing.

[Connie]

Igor's take on Erickson, also paraphrased: that there were many, many equally skilled hypnotists at the time doing much the same thing, but largely unknown. It comes down to marketing, he says. He thinks Bandler/Grinder's focus on him, and Rossi's writings is what brought him to the public's and the hypnotic community's attention.

Of course, I disagree. I think Milton was one of a kind. :)

I'm home from my trainings, and presumably out of this particular trance. I had a blast, learned some new tidbits, and got a new certification to add to my "I love me" wall. I think it was a fantastic experience, and that Igor (and his associate, Cliff--whom I also enjoyed talking to) put on an exceptionally good training.

[Poodle]

I'm still waiting for my PM with the info, if any. - Pood

[Jack]

I bow to your superior knowledge of Erickson, Don, but my comment was a little tongue-in-cheek. In error? I am constantly in error and bound for Hell, as my Jesuit teachers would constantly remind me!

I once worshipped at the feet of Erickson, but now I worship at the existential feet of the wild brown trout who are all quite capable of hypnosis and provide excellent therapy too. And, unlike Erickson, one can eat them.;)

Jack

[Connie]

We both know how powerful anchors are.

And someone who sets trust anchors, and then constantly fires them, will establish a feeling of trust ,whether or not they are trustworthy.

Many nlp adepts, Bandler included, establish and use 'wanna learn more' anchors. ...But as an NLPer we both know how easily feelings can be manipulated ... for our own good, as well as otherwise.

My best to you,

skip

How can one man be so smart and so wonderful?? :) I appreciate you, Skip. More than you know. Several of you here "had my back" regarding the extravagant feelings I was experiencing. I don't see any harm to me in anything that happened, and I sure had a good time--anchors or no. Perhaps he's "brilliant," perhaps not. My hubby had several of his audio and printed materials already, which I'll take a look at and evaluate further.

Igor commented to me privately that my "beaming face kept him going." It was a pretty intensive week of training--and it did seem he made inordinate amounts of direct eye contact with me from onstage. Doc, remember the suggestions you gave me for projecting an energetic connection with Richard Bartlett? I used some of that on Igor, so perhaps it was me acting on his emotional state and not vice versa.

[Connie]

A photo!

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/1740/igorpalmspringszt1.jpg

And one where you can see his face:

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/5403/igorcroppediu3.jpg

[Terry]

The story about Ericson and the 400 sessions, reminds me of another one I read about but have no way of verifying....
It seems this stubborn gentleman firmly believed that everybody was hypnotisable, and set out to prove it by finding those who were difficult and working until he succeeded. One client who must have been equally stubborn was not amenable to his methods, and they worked together daily for a year before finally concluding a trance. Now that Jack is landing your trout with the finest of rods and lines after playing to for hours. Or perhaps we should change that trout for a much larger fish, a Musky for example. They have some very large ones in Lake of the Woods, Northern Ontario, and you wouldn't land one of those on a six pound line....:)

[Merlin]

Remember, in the 1920s the skill was not so developed.
Also, consider Erickson was an experimenter/researcher.
He was often, not just hypnotising, but learning what worked and what didn't

[Jack]

Remember, in the 1920s the skill was not so developed.
Also, consider Erickson was an experimenter/researcher.
He was often, not just hypnotising, but learning what worked and what didn't

True and a good point. But I take Don's point that when working with the seriously mentally ill it could take a lot of time to induce an hypnotic state, but my own take would be that they were already in a trance albeit a bad one and that they only were 'entranced' by Erickson when he had actually removed the old trance. But I may be wrong.

Jack

[Jack]

Well, I don't know what a musky is, Terry, but if one can eat it then I'm up for it! My only stipulation when fishing is never to fish for something one has no intention of killing and eating.

Erickson, for all his brilliance may have been inedible. Although I believe certain South Seas tribes would recommend eating the clever fellows in order to become clever oneself.:D

Jack

[Don]

I don't like purple foods. :p

[Connie]

I don't like purple foods. :p

I bet you like this one:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2364/2241452605_6b2912c16c_m.jpg

[Jack]

I don't like purple foods. :p

I have to tell you, if they are purple you are eating people who are not fresh.:eek:

And why has Connie posted a photograph of haemorrhoids?

Jack

[Connie]

What an interesting metamorphosis of this topic. :) Jack, those are GRAPES! :)

[Jack]

What an interesting metamorphosis of this topic. :) Jack, those are GRAPES! :)

Sorry, I used to do hypno-birthing.:eek:

Jack

[skip]

Hi Jack,

I have a different take on this.

Erickson did indeed do a significant amount of his work with involuntarily institutionalized patients. Much of his work was done before the psychotropic drugs available today were known.

And he very much disliked the authoratative methods his colleagues used.

He was a master at entering into the patients 'sytem' and working gently from within it.

His method was "metaphorized" in the story of the lost horse. "One day Erickson found a horse in his front yard. No one knew where it came from and everyone assumed it would be difficult to find the owner. Erickson got on the horse and encouraged it to begin moving. Hours and miles later the hourse turned into its owners yard. People wanted to know how Erickson knew how to lead the horse home. He explained, I didnt know the way, the horse knew the way, I just encouraged him to keep going."

It is in that sense, that you could understand a state paid employee, taking that much time, and letting the client, mostly schizophrenics, go at their own pace, Erickson only encouraging them to keep going.

Erickson didnt consider time the issue. I know we all hear about the miraculous one session cures Erickson did. But that wasnt what he was about, nor where his interest lay. Erickon conversed with the 'word salad guy' in one session for 14 hours straight, in pure non sense word salad. And at the end of that session Erickson said, "Name's Erickson, would like to know yours sometime." This after Erickson had had his secretary follow George around transcribing everything he said, and then Erickson spending two months learning Georges particular word salad so he could pace him accurately. Then he does a 14 hour pace and no more lead than, 'Name's Erickson ...'.


The next time he spoke with 'George' they talked word salad for 8 straight hours, and then George said, "Name's George, nice to finally meet someone who talks sense." Now that was progress because George had been institutionalized for 10 years and no one had gotten even a name.


Only a state employee could afford to pace that long for no more lead? ;)

If I recall accurately it was two years more before George was released.

So dont mispercieve Erickson as someone whose outcome was rapid therapy. Not at all.

Ericksons big contribution was getting into the clients 'system' and working from within that reality to gently lead them to a "cure". He would enter into a clients ridgid reality and offer flexability thus becomming the most powerful part of the reality. He opened potential, and trusted the clients unconsciou to lead them to a solution just as in the horse story.

This was in direct contradiction to the rest of the hypnosis world, who took the authoratiarian approach, and assaulted the 'problem' with brute force.


cheers,

skip

[Mentalius]

"I know most of the movers and shakers in the hypnosis world"

Hey, Poodle, that´s great, so maybe you can refer me to some hypnotic movers and shakers in the Scandinavian countries, preferably speaking their native tongue.

Thanx.:)

[rdonovan1]

Hmmm..... This thread kind of looks interesting. I've read one book about conversational hypnosis and I have seen that Kevin Hogan does have some stuff on it as well.

The closest that I have to anything like that at the moment is a lot of books relating to hypnotic patterning.

I also have a few books on the topic of hypnotic selling as well.

[Poodle]

regarding the course he was taking as I met a full graduate of that course that is spectacular in the world of hypnosis and NLP.

Now that I have seen what the end product can be, US$5,000 is not a bad price at all IMO.

Hope you are done writing soon as I miss you.

Love~ma

[master_debator]

Connie, I'm wondering, what are these reservations about Igors training that you speak of?
Well, I did pose your question, Jack/Terry, to him today. He offers massive Q&A sessions, and I threw that one in! :) That a friend of mine had googled him and found the resultant advertising and marketing language a serious turn off and that I know that's not what he's all about. Here's what he said, paraphrased--I hope not too poorly.

He's aware that he's "losing people," but feels that "it (his niche marketing) works" to get more people than he's losing--and that once he has them, he sets them straight on the true power of hypnosis, that it lies not in control over people but rather helping and empowerment. And then there's people like me ( :) ) who go back and give the true story about him. I told him I was posting on this forum board about him and he seemed fine with that, noting that I'd probably said (ticking them off on his fingers), "sexy, attractive, brilliant..." (or words to those effects). Yes, I did! That's right.

I think he's wonderful as a hypnotherapist trainer. He's got the skills, no question, he's a wonderful communicator, he's got the personable "it factor," that charisma, he's got his head on straight, the honorable values. I LIKE him. In fact, I might take another training with him. I'm enjoying this training probably more than any training in the past, probably including Richard Bandler's.

Update: After more experience, I now express reservations about attending Igor's trainings.

[Poodle]

I would suggest you PM Connie to find out information IF she is willing to discuss Igor's trainings as you may have noticed many posts have been completely deleted. Certain things are not up for discussion on a public forum.

Connie and I have discussed this matter at length and I totally and completely support her decisions.

Be well~Pood

[Connie]

Hey, MD. Which training of Igor's are you considering? I'll be happy to tell you what to expect.

[Connie]

One of the facts I find appealing about life in general and mine in particular, things keep changing. Improving. I felt/thought one thing in September (my earliest posts on this topic), and another thing in April. Neither of those represent my current beliefs. Bottom line: Igor is a very talented man, and his courses that I've taken have been valuable learning experiences for me.

[Vin]

Connie,
that is pretty confusing. So, he was great, he became "nasty", at the end he was kinda great. Things keep changing? It is the same thing some politicians say in Italy when they cross the border and go from right to left, from left to right:)

Romans were right, in medio stat virtus. Definitely.

[Connie]

I sure don't see where I ever used the word "nasty." Where'd that come from?? He still is great. He's never stopped being great. What changed is me, and my expectations. He's no longer on a pedestal in my mind, but, yes, he is an extremely talented trainer. In fact, I'm likely to attend another training of his this coming winter on advanced "mind-bending language."