Boris Sidis - THE PSYCHOLOGY OF SUGGESTION

[KingHenrythe8th]

Hi Everyone,

I have just read the first chapter of The Psychology of Suggestion by Boris Sidis and have a few questions.

He gives examples of people carrying out, or not, posthypnotic suggestions.

He quite often refers to the suggestions as 'parasite thoughts'. He writes that his subjects are resisting the suggestions and often speak of a feeling of uneasiness and a feeling of wanting to prove him wrong by not carrying his suggestions. One person carrys out a phs once Sidis had left the room and would have resisted if he had stayed. Also there is an account of one subject appearing to be in some distress as he resists the suggestion until he 'shudders' and the parasite thought takes a deeper hold of him.

My own personal view of phs is one of fun and a sense of helping me. I choose which suggestions to take on board and ride but this has left me wondering what is going on with Sidis's subjects? Why are they in distress? Does the conscious try to resist suggestions unless told overwise? I can understand a sense of confusion on the behalf of the conscious after carrying out a suggestion but not a level of distress before being taken over and having to obey!

Am I missing something ? :confused:

Thank you.

[Don]

Possibly.

It may be that you're still thinking in Western medical terms and of "subject" vs. hypnotist.

Let's assume, however (as I do), that hypnosis is actually a cooperative technology. For example, I believe it was Elman who wrote that if you don't believe that your client can do something, you're client won't accomplish it no matter what suggestions are given, no matter how "deep" the trance.

So let's assume, just for giggles' sake, that this cooperative technology is actually functioning in hypnosis. If a subject is in distress as you described, is it not possible that the hypnotist has some sort of distress that is being carried over to the "subject?"

If not, then being encouraging before and after induction is a useless exercise.

[KingHenrythe8th]

I also believe communication is a cooperative process. I havent had any hands on experience of helping someone with hypnosis as I dare say you have Don so I am coming from a position of some ignorance.

Sidis's post hyp. sug's were of a strange nature, asking people to open umbrellas and hand out potatoes as if they were oranges. Do you think that this apparant randomness was a cause for people resisting? Perhaps in a theraputic context we accept suggestions easily because they are of obvious benefit to the conscious? Perhaps the Sidis showed a certain 'disrepect' for his subjects by asking them to do such random things which they picked up on.

Secondly I have the belief that I only follow suggestions that are a benefit to me. Sidis said that sometimes he had to re-hypnotise the subject and repeat the suggestion in order to get the subject to comply. Then I ask, if it wasn't good enough in the first place for the subject to accept then how can this be changed? If it is a bad move surely it stays a bad move no matter how many times we are told especially when we are told in the exact same way?:confused:

[Merlin]

In this case, How a suggestion is presented/framed is more important than what the suggestion is.

[KingHenrythe8th]

In this case, How a suggestion is presented/framed is more important than what the suggestion is.

If I had wet hair and you suggested to dry my hair by jumping off a cliff thus saving the consumption of natural resources by not having to power my hair dryer and thus helping to stop global warming I could possibly view that suggestion as a positive one for me? :confused:

I am really trying to read this art of suggestion as a black or white art but I have a feeling from you and Don that it is more of a 'you need to be there doing it' to really get a grip on what is going on. Is that a more accurate view?

[Don]

I think that's more accurate. However, before you can be there doing it, I would respectfully suggest getting trained in how to do it.

Now, I'm sure that Mr. Sidis was probably trained (I dunno, maybe not?), but the interesting thing is, it can be very easy to slip back into old patterns. I'm not suggesting that professional hypnotists should keep getting the same trainings (although it never hurts to repeat). Rather, getting trainings in new subjects, reading new books and getting new insights and inputs is continually valuable.

Nurses are usually required to take continuing credits to maintain their certification. For hypnosis, I believe it should be no less.

[Poodle]

Last night NGH had a telephone conference with Don (not our Don here) who is a pretty big name teacher in the USA. One of the things Don did talk about was success in hypnosis. It was his viewpoint that if one were to take a large room (250 people) and ATTEMPT to induce trance, 30% would stop smoking because they really wanted to and they had paid their money even tho there were in no type of hypnotic trance. He further stated that if one uses aversion therapy (e.g., your next cigarette is going to taste like burning rubber). Sure enough the client tries it out and it does. Two weeks later same thing. Finally, after 2-3 months the suggestion has fled and the cigarette tastes like it once did and client is smoking again. Another thing he said was to mix metaphors and direct suggestion 50%. Personally, I'm not really sure about the latter and especially that he said it can take a metaphor a couple of months to work???

Actually, I think the whole purpose of the telephone conference was so that people would sign up for his 5 day workshop before the annual convention and get his book of 175 or 250 tried and true techniques that ALWAYS WORK WITH EVERYBODY!!

You may continue your education with other instructors/trainers and get different ideas from different people. You can take what you really like and know will help you and use it and discard the remainder. There may come a time when that "remainder" will serve you well. This is what is so absolutely fabulous about this profession -- every single client you have will be totally different from any previous or any yet to come.

Pood

[Don]

I think I know who the "Don" is that you're talking about, Poodle. I have some of his videos and have attended some of his workshops, and the ones I've attended are quite good.

I would respectfully disagree that it necessarily takes "a couple of months" for metaphors to work. It depends upon the client.

However, according to the teachers I've had, even Erickson didn't depend completely on metaphors. Rather it followed a pattern of metaphor in light trance, direct suggestion in deep trance. That's a simplification, of course, but as a general rule I've found that it works pretty well. I also use the concept that a client is still highly suggestible for several minutes after he or she comes out of trance, and I use that for added suggestion, positive comments, etc.

[Poodle]

Also Erickson was much more direct in earlier years. How much more direct can a person be when it is stated: "I know why you are fat. You eat too much." LOL! Pood :)

[Merlin]

Not too many Don trainers, are there ;)

[Merlin]

If I had wet hair and you suggested to dry my hair by jumping off a cliff thus saving the consumption of natural resources by not having to power my hair dryer and thus helping to stop global warming I could possibly view that suggestion as a positive one for me?
That's an excellent example of poor framing.
Now, how might you word that same suggestion in a positive light, so that I'd want to jump?
{hint: Jihadists blow themselves up because of positive beliefs}

[KingHenrythe8th]

That's an excellent example of poor framing.
Now, how might you word that same suggestion in a positive light, so that I'd want to jump?
{hint: Jihadists blow themselves up because of positive beliefs}

I really thought I had framed the original suggestion in a positive light:confused:

Ok..I've got no point of reference to work with here..I don't know what works as a good suggestion or what doesn't...but using a positive influence of your hint..

"You have spent your whole life on a journey and as with any journey there will come an end and that end as the start is greeted with one step. One step to begin a new journey. I can take you to the edge but you will have to continue with that one step"

So I take you to the edge of the cliff Merlin, and in true NLP style if you don't walk off..... I give you a big push :D

I am currently on Stephen Brooks's online course (for the last two months) though I have to say that I have been pretty slack with my learning at present. This I will have to change :p

[Poodle]

I sure hope that class is better than the book he e'd out. Then for about $US5,000 one can spend a week with him in London to get sorta certified. I'm wondering by whom the NLP portion is "certified". You must have something in the UK that I'm completely unaware of.

[KingHenrythe8th]

I didn't make myself clear. It's actually a hypnosis course. I don't think there is an NLP section to it. It seems like quite a cool idea because the students rate each other in order to pass the course. There is a big emphasis on web cameras and Skype. I have seen the live courses, London and Liverpool, advertised but I can't afford that at the mo. I have just shelled out on the DHE cd's after reading how pleased people are who went to the Orlando seminar. I also got the timeline hypnosis cd and John and Kathleens NLP skills book.

[Poodle]

You are simply learning The Milton Model as was studied by and written by Bandler and Grinder. Gregory Bateson (British) told Bandler he should go and see a psychiatrist that used hypnosis in Phoenix, AZ. Bandler went and he and John spent a lot of time with Milton getting the language patterns, etc. down in a form that could be taught. The results of this is the NLP Milton Model and it is taught in EVERY NLP Practitioner course. On occasion it is taught in the Master Prac. course together with hypnotherapy as it is hypnotherapy.

Bandler's time line work and Tad James' TimeLine Therapy are two different animals.

As for ordering DHE on CD's or DVD's, you are only getting a small piece of the pie. They will not work their magick on you as it would if you were to attend in person. I know. I have them but I'm planning in person in '11. You are cutting corners due to lack of money so when you do finally show up in person you will have a lot of UNLEARNING to do. NLP and hypnosis just cannot be learned by listening or watching videos or reading books. It is all very interactive with a trainer/instructor watching to correct your mistakes while you are working with other students and clear up all misinformation that you may think about what's going on. I'm sure they really appreciate your business but that business is best saved until AFTER training. I would imagine you could even find what Don calls a "Taster Course" in hypnosis for not too much money. It only lasts a weekend but you will get the nuts and bolts and then be in a better position to continue on your own.

I have a friend, Zach, and he is really smart about a lot of things, especially computers. Now Zach went for the weekend course only and when I returned from two weeks he was pea green with envy. He thought he knew it all and everything else was just "fluff". Now poor Zach just wasted the money he spent as he's back to doing what he knows how to do and it's not hypnosis by any name. It's really just a beginning as there is no end that I've ever found and Terry with a good 40 years experience delves into research to change the more difficult problems in this world.

Sorry to have written sooo much. Stay well, Pood

[KingHenrythe8th]

the more the better from you Poodle :)