"Positive Changes" Weight Loss

[Ed Johnson]

About seven years ago I went through a series of hypnosis sessions with an organization called "Positive Changes." My goal was to lose weight, and I did lose about 55 pounds, but since then I've moved to a new location (between Raleigh and Fayetteville, NC) and gained back 40 pounds. I suspect hypnosis could help me again, but I don't know where to go or what to do. Do you have any suggestions?

[Cassandra 8]

About seven years ago I went through a series of hypnosis sessions with an organization called "Positive Changes." My goal was to lose weight, and I did lose about 55 pounds, but since then I've moved to a new location (between Raleigh and Fayetteville, NC) and gained back 40 pounds. I suspect hypnosis could help me again, but I don't know where to go or what to do. Do you have any suggestions?Irritatingly obvious things first: What does the phone book list?

[skip]

What did you do with the tapes that were made at your 'positive change' hypnosis sessions?

[Don]

We cannot recommend a hypnotherapist or NLP practitioners in your area. That's not our focus. If you're looking for someone, we suggest that you contact either the American Board of Hypnotherapy by sending an email to aih@ix.netcom.com or the National Guild of Hypnotists at https://www.ngh.net/referral.htm

We cannot rate hypnotherapists in your area.

[Ed Johnson]

What did you do with the tapes that were made at your 'positive change' hypnosis sessions?

I kept listening to the tapes, but over time they had less and less effect.

[Ed Johnson]

We cannot recommend a hypnotherapist or NLP practitioners in your area. That's not our focus. If you're looking for someone, we suggest that you contact either the American Board of Hypnotherapy by sending an email to aih@ix.netcom.com or the National Guild of Hypnotists at https://www.ngh.net/referral.htm

We cannot rate hypnotherapists in your area.

Thanks for the leads.

[Ed Johnson]

Irritatingly obvious things first: What does the phone book list?

I found nothing in the local phone book that was related to hypnosis.

[Terry (existing)]

You state that you kept listening to the tapes and they had less and less results. I find that amazing, since every client who ever came back to me for help, agreed that they had not bothered to listen to the tapes I made for them once results had been achieved. After all, if you are to lose a large amount of fat, it takes time, and therefor makes sense to leave the client to use a tape at no cost, rather than charge for months of visits.... How many sessions did you have, and how much did you continue to lose via the tape?

[skip]

Terry,

"Positive Changes" is a franchise. Unless they have changed policy since my friend owned one, the first session is taped, and is an individual, one on one session. Subsequent sessions are done without a hypnotist listening to canned nutrition and motivatiional tapes in a room where several people can recline in lazy boys with head phones.

If all this fellow had was his first session on tape, he may not have had much in the way of anything beyond facilitating hypnosis.

Thats an assumption based on the practice of a friend, who is no longer affiliated with the positive change franchises. Perhaps someone who is affiliated would correct me if I am in error.

skip

[Terry (existing)]

Thanks for the heads up Skip, we do had such a franchise here in Calgary, but although I know the owner, I have never visited or known much about how they operate. Must say I am surprised that this is so, but I suppose it is no different from a Macdonalds, or any other franchise, were the operator is limited in how they act in order to enhance profit...Too bad I think because I would have little hope for permanent weight loss under such circumstances.....I have always expected to give four to six sessions in order to get through all the factors that might be impeding the client from being slim, and would expect to know before we concluded, what those factors were. I always taught self hypnosis for future progress, and made a tape as extra support, but expect the SH to be sufficient for most....On the other hand, I have never assumed that mine was the only method......

[Elizabeth]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I have a question about how this franchise operates and whether it's worth it. I am tentatively scheduled to start a six-month program with them, "guaranteed" to lose 40 pounds. (The guarantee is essentially that I can keep attending the program for longer than six months at no additional charge if I haven't lost the weight yet). The cost is over $1300, up-front. Is this reasonable, or a scam? Would I be better off going to a private hypnotherapist?

[TaffyE]

[QUOTE=Elizabeth]The cost is over $1300, up-front. Is this reasonable,


In my opinion NO


Would I be better off going to a private hypnotherapist?

Again IMO YES

See Terry's estimation of the number of sessions.

[Terry (existing)]

Strange that this should be the first thread I hit after visiting hypnosisonline.com, and reading about a franchisee of this chain who is charged with sexual assault against clients. Not that I would wish to seem to blame the chain for this, but one of the things mentioned in this thread, is that little or no training is required for francisees, only that they have the price of setting up, and the cost of equipement required as part of the deal. Now in most franchises, the new person must take intense training so that all outlets are as identical as possible.

A cooperative client can be trained in weight loss techniques in four sessions for example,. six at most.
Price wise, I have no problem, some practitioners do indeed charge this much, and need to if they have the cost of running an office complete with receptionist etc. What I do have a problem with however, is the time factor. Are you sure this reffers to weekly attendance, or is it about the time nescessary to see complete results for someone very obese? If the latter, I agree......

[Elizabeth]

A cooperative client can be trained in weight loss techniques in four sessions for example,. six at most.
Price wise, I have no problem, some practitioners do indeed charge this much, and need to if they have the cost of running an office complete with receptionist etc. What I do have a problem with however, is the time factor. Are you sure this reffers to weekly attendance, or is it about the time nescessary to see complete results for someone very obese? If the latter, I agree......
I believe that you have an individual session with a hypnotherapist every 4-6 weeks, and a group session weekly. The group session, as it was explained to me, first has a lecture on nutrition topics, and then essentially repeats the lecture while people are in a trance state (they use some kind of funky flashing-light goggles to help induce this). They guarantee that you will lose 40 pounds during the six months (if you don't, they extend the time without charge until you do). So you are talking about 4-6 sessions with the hypnotherapist, in addition to the lectures, and a rate of loss of 1-2 lb/week.

I will call around and ask about rates for individual hypnotherapists in my area. Any recommendations about how to find a good one? (I know you can't recommend individuals here.) I'm in the Seattle area.

[Hypnomania]

They guarantee that you will lose 40 pounds during the six months (if you don't, they extend the time without charge until you do).

If their system doesn't work for you, do you think you would continue going there for another 6 month every week? Not only a lot of money, also a lot of time to invest for you.

I believe that you have an individual session with a hypnotherapist every 4-6 weeks

What happens if you don't feel comfortable with their hypnotherapist? Do they have several therapists so you can go to another one?

[Michael Soloman]

You should make sure that the hypnotist you choose or audio program you buy is created by a licensed mental health professional. The Positive Changes folks have no formal training. Beware of people with CHT after their name or who have a "doctorate" in Clinical Hypnotherapy. Hypnosis is unregulated, so you need to choose a psychologist, psychiatrist, or other licensed mental health professional....

[TaffyE]

[QUOTE=Michael Soloman]you need to choose a psychologist, psychiatrist, or other licensed mental health professional. QUOTE]

In my opinion, a very limiting belief which would deprive many people of excellent therapy if limited to the above individuals. How many hours training in hypnotherapy do the above receive? IMO an individual qualified as stated does not necessarily mean "better treatment"

Personal opinion, and non the less valid.

[Don]

Merely because someone is a "licensed mental health professional" does not mean they aren't incompetent morons or so focused on an agenda that they sacrifice everything they've learned to promote that agenda.

The "Satanic Panic" of 10-20 years ago was started by "licensed mental health professionals" and resulted in costing society hundreds of millions of dollars and ruining lives of individuals and destroying families.

Finding a experienced, certified, clinical hypnotherapist does not guarantee excellence any more than finding a "licensed mental health professional" does not guarantee that you won't be dealing with a psycho. No matter who you work with, ask questions, check references, look for training.

And remember, that a "psychologist, psychiatrist, or other licensed mental health professional" can legally call himself or herself a "hypnotherapist" without any training in hypnosis or hypnotherapy at all.

There are many fantastic licensed mental health professionals and there are also many fantastic, board certified, clinical hypnotherapists.

[EC]

I disagree with Don about the "agenda", simply because I know many licensed folks and most are thoughtful, caring well intended professionals with the best interest of the individual in mind. Of course there are "bad apples" in every profession.

There are nutty magicians, hypnotherapist, psychologist, mechanics, clerks, MD's and the list goes on.......

At the same time, I primarily disagree with M Soloman because many licensed professional do only have a small amount of hypnosis training, and, hypnotherapy is a distinct and seperate art from psychology. Frankly, I am not sure I don't agree that it is better left in the hands of lay professionals, that are not biased toward treatment through education and psychological training. One does not need psychology to excel at hypnotherapy, but one will do well to have a good understanding of behavior.

When you need a Hypnotherapist, go find a good one. Yes it might take trying out two or three. When you need a Psychologist, go find a good one, it should only take one or two.

EC

[Don]

EC, you might check my final line where I wrote, "There are many fantastic licensed mental health professionals." I, too, know many licensed folks who are wonderful. My point was not that there aren't great licensed professionals, only that having such a license does not necessarily make one great.

You posted, "When you need a Hypnotherapist, go find a good one. Yes it might take trying out two or three. When you need a Psychologist, go find a good one, it should only take one or two." That was exactly my point. Caveat Emptor.

[skip]

Hold on thar pa'dners!

I can easily forsee how this could end up with us calling each other protoplasmic piles of presuppositions.

Lets back up for a moment.

Most of us, licensed and lay people alike, get into this bidness because we care about people and want to help them. Very few enter into it to become incredibly rich and famous. And that's a good thing because if you look at the statistics the odds are very long against either.

So lets generously assume quality motives, until proven otherwise.

Now a 'board certified' "licensed mental health professional", is someone who is most likely to have started out in undergrad school wanting to study psychology, and graduated, and went to grad school, got a masters degree minimum, apprenticed, and earned eventually, board certification.

If an analogy will serve, they entered into a 'religion' and studied and did all the right things and have been duly 'ordained' in that religion. That 'religion' is primarily the psychotheraputic model, and it has numerous sects that refuse to speak to each other, much less cooperate, unless threatened from outside. (OK granted thats the extreme.)

Most of your lay people started on a different career path, and just were interested in hypnosis, or developed that interest later in their life and have found something they love. So they eventually became a follower of a different 'religion', if you will. And there are different sects on this religion too, and they often wont speak to each other except to snarl. The difference here is that the lay folks are so ornery they wont even cooperate when threatened from the outside.

Now both of these groups believe their respective religions. And both of these groups have their share of kooks, charaltins, fools, gurus, 'theologians' and other assorted criminals.

Admission to the psycotheraputic religion doesn not require any training in hypnosis, in order to call onesself a hypnotist. It would be considered unethical to so do, but I know of no one who has been excommunicated for doing so. Professional ethics you know. In fact the majority of the followers of this religion consider hypnosis to be either placebo, or worse. Thats the trouble with beliefs, you can have them, without any regard whatsoever for the evidence.

Admission to the lay religion apparently requires only a minimal check book balance, actually it is worse than that. All you need do is gather up the scratch for a meeting room, and an ad in the paper, and you can do group stop smoking sessions.

Members of both religions distrust the other religion. I rather doubt that they could agree on a common definition of their God. And both religions can cite 'evidence' valid, and actually very scarey, that the other religion has serious holes in it, has fools and criminals in it, sometimes leaves people worse off, and has its share of money grubbers, social climbers, attention seekers, and other sleazes.

Well so does politics, medicine, organized religion, ...

Thats the worst, and clearly there is room for improvement.

BE CAREFUL HERE

PAY PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO WAHT I DO SAY AND WAHT I DONT SAY

Your average hypnotist is going to be better skilled at hypnosis than your average psychologist. Most psychologists dont get any hypnosis training, as a part of their psychology studies. Most of those that do, get about 6 hours of theory, with no practical work. Most hypnotists would consider that less than an adequate beginning.

So the bottom line is that most of the "licensed mental health professional", who really do practice hypnosis, and really took the time to learn it well, did so on their own.

Makes them sound like lay people doesnt it?

DONT MAKE THAT MISTAKE!

The "licensed mental health professional", is well steeped in their religion and they have had to pass minimum standards, peer review, and contuniung edication requirements, in their religion to get, and maintain where they are. I believe thats worth something.

The lay people have no such mechanism. Some lay people are as well versed in their religion as the so called 'professional' folks, some are possibly even better, and they continue to learn and grow on their own. That speaks very well of them. The only standards imposed on the lay people are the rules of the free market. If they are good they can survive and prosper, if not, the market is a harsh mistress.

Because they represent two differing religions, the protocols for therapy differ. Both protocols seem workable, and there is some cross transference of beliefs, although both religions would be loath to admit it.

OK so the real question. Which religion will get you to heaven?

Well first you have to realize that neither religion really knows how their religion does its work. Neither religion, if honest, pretends that it is they who fix anyone. They acknoweledge that they are trying to set up conditions so the individual can fix themselves. That it is a cooperative effort, with the client doing the real work, while the therapast attempts to create opportunities for the client to 'grow', metaphorically speaking.

Both general theologies as well as their various sects can get you to heaven. Neither is thoroughly infiltrated with either angels or the spawn of satan, although both seem to suspect so.

Well thats where things are, at least they are, if memory still serves me. (lately though it seems more to stand and wait.)

cheers,

skip

[EC]

Skip,

Yes, we are certainly all bobbling along in our own little bubble, individually and as a profession.

I think between You, Don and I,,,, We have reached the agreement that there are good and bad in every profession and some are more capable than others.

Now that we have that solved, I think I'll go make a pile of protoplasmic,,,,not presuppositions........

EC

[Elizabeth]

I ended up cancelling with Positive Changes - they didn't give me any trouble about the cancellation or the refund. I contacted a hypnotherapist whose name was given to me by NGH. I am going to start with one of his inexpensive group classes and see how it goes - I may sign up for individual sessions with him as well, if I decide that it will be helpful. But a starting fee of $79 (for a three-session group class) instead of $1377 is a good way to get my feet wet and decide how far I want/need to go.

Thanks for the advice, and I am reading the debate on "licensed professionals" with interest!

[Don]

Group sessions can be very helpful. However, with a group the leader must focus on generalizations rather than specifics. So if you are not as successful as you desire with the group, please understand that the problem may not be with hypnotherapy, but with the fact that you're an individual and what was good for the group may not be perfectly in tune with your needs. So at that time you might consider working individually with a hypnotherapist.

[Elizabeth]

Group sessions can be very helpful. However, with a group the leader must focus on generalizations rather than specifics. So if you are not as successful as you desire with the group, please understand that the problem may not be with hypnotherapy, but with the fact that you're an individual and what was good for the group may not be perfectly in tune with your needs. So at that time you might consider working individually with a hypnotherapist.
That actually was my exact plan. I'll start with the group, and perhaps it will work for me. If so, I got what I needed for cheap. :) If not, I will probably have determined whether I like this hypnotherapist enough to schedule individual sessions with him, or if I should seek someone else.

[Hypnomania]

Sounds like a good decision. I wish you a lot of success with that! And it would be nice to hear how things are going.

[Terry (existing)]

Now that all the dung has been flung, and few people hung, it's time for more of the same (EG)..... Obviously Mr Solomon has no concept of hypnosis, but wants to see his name in print, or is perhaps a professional who is jealous of the successes achieved by lay practitioners (G)...... Does he know how hard it is to find a good practitioner of hypnosis I wonder? Does he know how many professionals I and others on this board have trained? Does he really believe that a piece of paper makes a difference to the character of a person, and how they will treat a client? If so, I demand that the cost of his education be repaid to the taxpayer..........