learning the meta model

[phillipk]

Hi,

I'm reading "The Structure of Magic Vol 1" and working my way through example scenarios to learn the model. I have been getting stuck and was hoping someone could help me and provide some feedback to the responses I have given. The fictitious scenario is as follows (c=client, t=therapist)

(1) c- I always get shy around girls and I feel they think i'm weird.

(always - Universal quantifier, girls - unspecified ref indexl, they - unspecified noun, I feel they think i'm weird - mind reading)

(2) t- what girls specifically?

(3) c- Girls I meet out.

(Girls - unspecifed ref, meet - unspecified verb, out - unspecified noun)

Back to (1) check complex equivalent

(4) t- Do you feel girls think you're weird because you feel shy around them?

(5) c- Um... I'm not sure
(6) t- How do you know every girl always thinks you're weird?
(7) c- Because they never want to talk to me when i'm out... They tend to ignore me.

(never - universal quantifier, they - unspecified ref index, complex equivalent- not talking to me means they are ignoring me)

(challenge UC)

(8) You mean no girl has ever talked to you when you've been out AT ALL?
(9) Well sometimes...but not often, not the girl's i'm interested in.

I'm not really sure where to go from here? I think I have gone off on a tanget... I'm also not sure if the previous responses I supplied were good...

Can someone please give me some direction?

Thanks,

Phil

[Poodle]

It's (LRI) better learned in person with lots of practice on other students so you don't become a Meta MONSTER or a Meta MUDDLER!

Be well, (DC)
Pood

[Terry]

You are attempting to learn from books, right? Well when you come here it is no different, you read about it. What you are doing is trying to use a three legged stool with two legs missing....one leg is reading, the second is training under a qualified instructor, and the third is practise with others equally intent on learning to do it properly.
To pander to your request would be to waste both your time and ours, and I can't speak for you of course, but I do know I hate to waste my time...

[phillipk]

Ok, Thanks i see what you're saying. I am learning from a book yes. What's a better way to learn if you don't have people that are also trying to learn the model?

I'm not sure I can afford a course atm...

Do you have any other suggestions?

[Poodle]

Suggestions - get a job after school/work or on weekends or both and save the money
- brown bag your lunch
- eat in, not out
- walk instead of public transit
- get rid of cable/satellite TV
- no more new tunes for that iPod
- do you really need an ISP

Books are wonderful and all of us here encourage the reading of books so much so that we have suggested reading. We read lots and lots and lots of books AFTER training. Can a book teach you how a banana tastes or how to ride a bicycle. Some things in life have to be experienced and NLP and hypnosis are two of them.

Stay well,
Mrs. Poodle

[Terry]

Ok, Thanks i see what you're saying. I am learning from a book yes. What's a better way to learn if you don't have people that are also trying to learn the model?

I'm not sure I can afford a course atm...

Do you have any other suggestions? Phillip, I tell you how, and you come back with the usual comment "I can't afford it". Now understand, it is not my problem. My problem is to give the best advice possible, and I did.

I tell you to spend a measly couple of thousand dollars, and one year of practice to become equal to a medical doctor who has spent many years and many thousands of dollars to get a degree, and you ask for something easier and less costly. That tells me you have no idea what this thing you want is worth, I suggest you find out before you complain of the cost..

[Poodle]

to be the "client" and the "therapist" at the same time, isn't it?

[phillipk]

Phillip, I tell you how, and you come back with the usual comment "I can't afford it". Now understand, it is not my problem. My problem is to give the best advice possible, and I did.

I tell you to spend a measly couple of thousand dollars, and one year of practice to become equal to a medical doctor who has spent many years and many thousands of dollars to get a degree, and you ask for something easier and less costly. That tells me you have no idea what this thing you want is worth, I suggest you find out before you complain of the cost..

Terry, thank you I appreciate your advice. I didn't say "I can't afford it" I said i'm not sure I can afford it at the moment. Thank you for giving me 'the best advice possible' I'm not sure why this is a problem though... Sorry to trouble you...

I didn't ask for anything easier i was merely looking for alternatives, perhaps a DVD training series or another alternative could prove useful... Choice is a wonderful thing... Wouldn't you agree?

I have an idea of what I want just not exactly how much it's worth... When I acheive my goals i'll come back and quote you a figure... Find out more about what exactly?

I didn't mean to be a smart arse Terry but your post seemed to have quite a condescending and frustrated undercurrent, when all I did was ask a question. How has NLP worked for you so far anyway? Has it improved your communication skills with people?

[Terry]

From the way you write, I assume quite reasonably that you percieve the term "condecending" to be insulting in some way. If you are as I suspect still at school, your education in English is lacking, read your dictionary.

"Condecending, to voluntarily come down from a higher place to a lower one". Of course I am condecending, how else can I reply to and help someone who knows nothing wnen I have trained, studied, and practised for years? If I were at your level of knowledge in this matter, how do you suppose I could be of help? I am being condecending when I find need to explain the word condecending to someone, but that is not bad, just nescessary for proper communication. NOW, in simple language that nobody can possible misunderstand, There are not shortcuts, and we therefor don't offer them. Do it right, don;t do it at all, or go elsewere to get faulty information, we know all to well the dangers of "playing" with the mind and have no intention of encouraging such activity, it is unethical, and legally dangerous.