Level too deep

[highlandlass]

I have had a couple of short sessions with a teenager for enuresis. I have no problem with scripts for dealing with enureses, my problem is that he is falling asleep - very deeply. Ideo motor has no response, arm levitation - nothing, direct instruction or suggestion - nothing. He didnt come out first time on the second session but did third time.

I am thinking that the deep sleep is another form of avoidance. The boy is very very shy, cannot express himself easily - it's like pulling teeth trying to get him to answer basic questions.

The induction is a simple progressive relaxation and he is well asleep before that deepening begins!

Advice would be great! :confused:

[Merlin]

Many people fall asleep when told 'relax'
Try an induction which does not require such relaxation.

[Terry (existing)]

From your post, I conclude a possible cause or causes. There seems to be no raport, perhaps you have failed to do sufficient preparation work, is that possible? Also, from what you say, there may be resistance due to being coersed into seeing you, instead of coming of his own free will...
I could of course be wrong, the intenet is notorious for being a very poor method of communicating, which leads to missunderstanding of posts...... Another skilled local would be best, but failing that, I doubt we can be of more help without better information. Attempting to discover client based reasons is futile, so we can only concentrate on those of which you might be guilty.....

[skip]

Assuming that you do have good rapport with this fellow, and that he is there because he does want to stop wetting, then I would agree with Merlin.

There are plenty of other induction methods that have nothing to do with relaxation.

So make sure he understands that he doesnt have to relax or close his eyes, and that if he is sleepy, he can rest after he does the work he needs to do, in fact he can ...

and go from there.

skip

[highlandlass]

Thank you for your responses. I am not sure about how I feel about the suggestion I may not have any raport. I have specifically spent a time with the boy during and outwith the sessions to try to get him familiar with me. I did double / triple check that HE wants this to happen. The father is very dominant and answered for him, so the father is no longer present during sessions.

The father hinted that there is an issue some time in the past - he is a single parent. He doesn't think the boy remembers but of course he does at some level. Before I get to that I need to establish a communication link.

I will try other inductions. I am, however aware of the costs to the clients father and aim for a rapid conclusion.

Thank you again

highlandlass

[EC]

highlandlass,

>> I am thinking that the deep sleep is another form of avoidance. <<

If your gut feeling is that this is true, it probably is. It would not be that unusual.

Perhaps he is accustomed to "retreating" emotionally from his dominant father. If that is the case, have you considered "using" that behavior somewhat against him, using an authoritarian and rapid induction ? I think rapport may be overrated. Sometimes you need it if you are making friends, sometimes you just don't need it to get deep hypnosis. In this case, perhaps he has heard years of rationalization from his father and has learned to just "tune it out". Maybe that is what he is also doing to you.

Is it possible that his enuresis is saying "piss on you pop", ie: rebellion to dominance ? Wouldn't it be better if he found a more creative way to rebell that didn't get him wet every night ?

EC

[highlandlass]

EC thank you for you advice - it sounds more true. The child is quite immature and babyish for his 14 years - I have witnessed both maturity/independance and extreme childish behaviour. The child has also been diagnosed with ADHD so I used the progressive relaxation induction on the first occassion, kept the session short and comfortable. The second session was when I worked on responses, verbal, ideomotor etc. The child is listening to a therapy tape each night providing confidence building, positive thinking and ego strengthening which will also help in the background.

I will take your advice and use a different induction. Thank you again,

highlandlass

[EC]

highlandlass,

Glad to be of help. Please let us know the results.

EC

[Pdrive]

Does anyone know if ADHD would have something to do with highlandlass's problem?

[Don]

ADHD is a medical diagnosis. Unless someone is a licensed medical professional, to diagnose someone with such a problem is illegal. But even if someone here were a licensed professional, to diagnose someone with ADHD without even giving that person an interview would be highly unethical.

Finally, since most people here are either hypnotherapists, hypnotherapists in training, or interested in hypnosis, the very concept of ADHD is irrelevant. That is part of a medical paradigm and not part of a hypnotherapeutic paradigm.

[highlandlass]

Thank you for all your advice and help with this one. The last session I tried a different induction technique with some success. The client did respond to questions and I continued to check responses, however after about 20 / 25 minutes he seemed to drop much deeper again and communication stopped.

His father has decided not to proceed further as he felt that at least some improvement should have happened. This was disappointing to say the least.

With regards to the ADHD, the client takes daily medication. Whether there is a side effect from this, I can't say. I do think that the lack of verbal communication means a lot. I investigated this aspect further and discovered that his child minder still has trouble getting verbal responses - and she has known him all his life.

I feel that this case has a very deep root. The background up to the age of 3 is definitely the cause - an element of neglect, the child being left in a soiled nappy for many many hours. I have suggested that although the father does not want to continue hypnosis, he may find that NLP would help - particularly if the child can learn to communicate in other methods - painting, drawing, music etc. I have recommended a few alternatives and do hope he continues to help his son in order to resolve this issue. He felt that perhaps he should leave his son to grow out of it.

I feel this case, although extremely difficult, could have progressed further and have very much appreciated the help and support I received here. Thank you all for your responses, thank you for hosting such a valuable resource.
:)

[intune]

Might be too late, but for my sleepy truck drivers I just get them to stand up. Can't sleep then. Ask them to stand like a horse in a stable sleeping standing up.

[Merlin]

>I just get them to stand up. Can't sleep then.

Nonsense!

[Terry (existing)]

I must admit that when I was in the Navy, I could sleep almost anywere, and frequently did so standing in the corridor of a packed train, as I travelled home for weekend leave. I would sleep soundly until I heard, "Birmingham next stop" at which point I came wide awake (G).....