How does one Suggestion Override another?

[parsa]

Say someone decides to quit smoking or loose weight or loose some habit. It's a suggestion they make to themselves right? And they have some kind of reason that makes this suggestion beneficial. Now, if they can't quit smoking or..., why is it that the suggestion to smoke is more successful?

What decides which suggestion you actually act upon?

[Cassandra 8]

Say someone decides to quit smoking or loose weight or loose some habit. It's a suggestion they make to themselves right? And they have some kind of reason that makes this suggestion beneficial. Now, if they can't quit smoking or..., why is it that the suggestion to smoke is more successful?

What decides which suggestion you actually act upon? The strength of the concept and the strength of its relation to other concepts (emotions, circumstances, behaviours, memories, etc. etc.).

So, you might have hypnotherapy for smoking cessation that doesn't go into the fact that you always love a ciggy with alcohol and the next time you are in a bar and someone offers you a smoke you might take it even though you know not to.

[Terry (existing)]

You have now exposed in your own way, the reason why we tell those who want to join us to take courses and not try to find a cheap or easy way to learn. All you need to make a suggestion successful is the knowledge of how to make it impossible to refuse.(G)

[Cassandra 8]

You have now exposed in your own way, the reason why we tell those who want to join us to take courses and not try to find a cheap or easy way to learn. All you need to make a suggestion successful is the knowledge of how to make it impossible to refuse.(G)Exactly...

[parsa]

Terry,
I do understand that the 'how to' needs to be learned. But what I am asking at this point is 'what', if that's a valid question.

Cassandra 8,
What you said in your first response only shows that there will be a dilemma. To smoke or not to smoke:) . My question is that given the various emotions that one has tied to smoking and not smoking, 'what' decides which you choose.

[Cassandra 8]

Cassandra 8,
What you said in your first response only shows that there will be a dilemma. To smoke or not to smoke:) . My question is that given the various emotions that one has tied to smoking and not smoking, 'what' decides which you choose. Desire? It depends on the person. In one it might be pleasure, another stress. A good hypnotherapist will explore why you in particualar smoke and undo it.

As for the underlying "what". I don't think the board's up to a discussion of the neurophysiology of addiction at the moment.

[Merlin]

Parsa,

There is a 'protective' part of the mind. It keeps out untrue suggestions.
If I told you 8+5=3, that part of your mind would reject the idea.
If I told the person 'you are now a non-smoker', that part of the mind would reject the new idea as untrue.

That part of your mind doesn't know what is actually true.
It bases the decision on past learnings.
That's why it is so difficult to 'unlearn' something.
It's also difficult to 'unlearn' smoking.

Hypnosis is a method of getting ideas into the mind without the ideas being blocked as untrue.

>'what' decides which you choose.

*after* a new idea gets into the mind, the mind overlays the new idea over the old.
So, the most recent idea is acted upon.

[parsa]

Merlin,

Thanks. I understand.

Now it's like, I'm thinking about kids. They have the protection too, but it's not so strong, if that's the right word, or maybe they know how to remove it. They keep relearning.

So what happens when you grow up? Is it that you initially know how to remove the filters and then you forget? Or maybe you learn 'not' to remove them?

[Terry (existing)]

I wonder if I misunderstood your question as put? I thought you were asking about using self hypnosis as against hetro hypnosis, and why you own suggestions didn;t work and why those given to you did. Sorry, but the post was not too clear.

[Merlin]

Well,

The protection is for something previously learned.
When kids learn something which is wrong, it is difficult for them to relearn correctly.

If there is no prior learning, the new goes in easily.

Also, children use a special tool called make-belief.
It's a great tool for creating new beliefs.
Adults are more often concerned with proof, scientific evidence, or even not looking childish, which defeats the learning methods inherent in children.

[Cassandra 8]

Adults are more often concerned with proof, scientific evidence, or even not looking childish, which defeats the learning methods inherent in children. Where are you getting this from? A book on neurology or your beliefs again?

[skip]

Cassandra,

"Where are you getting this from? A book on neurology or your beliefs again?"

I understand your faith in 'scientific proof'.

I also understand that it is really just a belief, just like my beliefs are mine, and Merlin's are hers.

It is perfectly fine to questions somene elses beliefs, hopefully with the understanding that your counter beliefs, are also just beliefs, as long as we keep the discussion about beliefs and ideas; as long as the discussion stays about beliefs and ideas.

thanks,

skip

[Cassandra 8]

Cassandra,

"Where are you getting this from? A book on neurology or your beliefs again?"

I understand your faith in 'scientific proof'.

I also understand that it is really just a belief, just like my beliefs are mine, and Merlin's are hers.

It is perfectly fine to questions somene elses beliefs, hopefully with the understanding that your counter beliefs, are also just beliefs, as long as we keep the discussion about beliefs and ideas; as long as the discussion stays about beliefs and ideas.

thanks,

skip That's a good point, Skip. Unfortunately, I have studied psychology and neurophysiology in depth as well as physics (and a great deal of other stuff) and I know that the reason adults tend to be set in their ways by default is that our ability to make new dendrites between neurons drops as a function of age.

Some of what passes for fact here is actually belief (perhaps better described as assumption), and unfortunately that's being passed on to others. In my unregistered days, I railed against people not bothering to look things up before putting fingertips to keyboard. Perhaps I have been a little harsh on Merlin, but there's a tendency to reply becasue replies are expected rather than as a result of having a difinitive, correct answer. I think that's reasonable. I keep out of threads about which I know nothing, but in the meantime I look up the concepts, read around them and sometimes realise that what's being said is, in fact, incorrect. Working with the facts is vital in my line of work.

An example might be the insistance that the "protective" part of the mind will protect you from being told that, say, 1+1=3. But I have been part of a medical demonstration of the possibilities hypnosis provides, in which I "lost" the number six and couldn't work out how I got to number 11 on my fingers. Further, having the concept of negative numbers removed was interesting as I found I could only add up. Only if I found it objectionable to believe these things would they not have happened. A further suggestion, one I won't divulge, resulted in the emergency formation of consciousness to handle the situation. I popped out of trance, in other words.

[Don]

I have studied psychology and neurophysiology in depth as well as physics (and a great deal of other stuff) and I know that the reason adults tend to be set in their ways by default is that our ability to make new dendrites between neurons drops as a function of age.


If that's what you believe, it's absolutely true for you.


Some of what passes for fact here is actually belief (perhaps better described as assumption), and unfortunately that's being passed on to others.

I believe that's exactly what I wrote.

[parsa]

Terry,
Well that is kind of what I asked. I mean, for some part of it I was asking what makes one suggestion work and another one to fail, no matter whom it comes from.

Merlin,
Ok, so all of us that don't know hypnosis are equal :) , young and old, sort of :) .

[Merlin]

>I know that the reason adults tend to be set in their ways by default is that our ability to make new dendrites between neurons drops as a function of age.

Which has nothing to do with hypnosis or bypassing the 'critical factor'

> Some of what passes for fact here is actually belief

If you realise your statements are merely your beliefs, why do you argue as though they are facts and you the only authority?

>there's a tendency to reply becasue replies are expected rather than as a result of having a difinitive, correct answer.

Cassandra, it's OK if you don't know or don't reply.

>An example might be the insistance that the "protective" part of the mind will protect you from being told that, say, 1+1=3. But I have been part of a medical demonstration of the possibilities hypnosis provides, in which I "lost" the number six and couldn't work out how I got to number 11 on my fingers...

But Cassandra, that illustrates the point.
Hypnosis is a bypassing of that protective part (often referred to as the critical faculty (CF)
Without bypassing that protective CF, you would not have experienced ='in which I "lost" the number six'= The protective part (CF) would have protected you from this happening.

[Merlin]

>Unfortunately, I have studied psychology and neurophysiology in depth as well as physics (and a great deal of other stuff) and I know that the reason adults tend to be set in their ways by default is that our ability to make new dendrites between neurons drops as a function of age.

I agree: 'Unfortunately'
But you can overcome these learnings, in spite of your current belief: "the reason adults tend to be set in their ways by default is that our ability to make new dendrites between neurons drops as a function of age."

*When the mind expects something to happen,
it will go out of its way to create that expectation as a reality.*

As you point out in your own post: ='I "lost" the number six'=
See, you can learn new things. All that is needed is a bypassing of that protective mechanism we refer to as the Critical Factor.
and you know what? It works for people at any age!
Even you can still learn something new!

[Terry (existing)]

Simplist answers are never quite correct, but they ARE symplistic so as not to be missunderstood, so here is my symplistic reply......If a suggestion is not acted upon, it is because it has not been accepted even when the critical factor is bypassed. That must mean that some resistance exists to change I would suggest. The good practitioner delves into this, and attempts to either remove the resistance, or bypass it in some way. The person using self hypnosis is unlikely to attempt this believing that the fault is in the presentation, and they are not therefor good enough to get results. Sort of depending on the skills of others to be greater than ours I suppose.......

[Snoop Frog]

'merlin is mad' my belief... i'm also sorry about it

[Unregistered]

"The sun will rise tomorrow" (Well, actually, the earth will rotate on its axis...)

Is this my belief? (I do believe it) or a scientific fact (assuming the earth's rotation doesn't end within the next 24 hours or the sun does not cease to exist, etc etc)?

[Unregistered]

"...our ability to make new dendrites between neurons drops as a function of age"
That sounds like a command I'll ignore.


The sun will rise tomorrow (well, actually, the earth will turn on its orbit)

Its all the same in another realm, but the ,asters of metaphor amongst you already know this.

[Cassandra 8]

"...our ability to make new dendrites between neurons drops as a function of age"
That sounds like a command I'll ignore.It won't make bit of difference in 50 years. You won't even know.

[Unregistered]

Oh, I at least hope to live over the age of 64 years.

[skip]

Cassandra may have other plans for you. :)

[Cassandra 8]

Cassandra may have other plans for you. :)Tee hee :)

[Unregistered]

Yippeeeeee, I can't wait. Is this the same Cassandra who is the daughter of Priam, gifted with the skill of prophacy but condemned never to be beleived? I think not.

[Cassandra 8]

Yippeeeeee, I can't wait. Is this the same Cassandra who is the daughter of Priam, gifted with the skill of prophacy but condemned never to be beleived? I think not.Someone finally gets it! A misspent classical education or didja look it up? ;)

[Unregistered]

a misspent classical education. However, I now use it too impress people.

I did look up something on dendrites and have found lots of pages stating that dendrites can be produced into our seventees.

[Cassandra 8]

a misspent classical education. However, I now use it too impress people.

I did look up something on dendrites and have found lots of pages stating that dendrites can be produced into our seventees.I said the ability to form them drops as a function of age, not that they stop forming. Of course, someone will pop up now to state that this is just my belief!

[Merlin]

Almost everything declines as a function of age, unless a person actively works at doing otherwise.

[Unregistered]

my race towards death won't decline with age.
I'm going to join this forum tomorrow. I'll be back.

[Merlin]

>my race towards death won't decline with age.

Sorry to hear of your decision.

[Unregistered]

Nice one Merlin (The unregistered guest)