Linking two things together

[lingo1]

Hi everyone,

I've been trying to find out more information about a technique that I'm not even sure would be classed as hypnosis but I couldn't think of what else it would be.

Basically, what I would like to do is learn how to link an action to a feeling, for example, say someone who wants to stop eating cake, they would link the action of eating cake to the feeling of being sick, therefore, everytime they thought about eating cake, they would feel sick.

Does that make sense?

For me, I want to link the thought of smoking to a horrible feeling so that I can eliminate the desire to smoke completely.

I'm having trouble finding information about this technique, could anyone here offer me some advice or links to articles or something please?

Thanks a lot :-)

[Connie]

Hi, what you're asking about is called "aversion therapy." It's a technique much as you described, linking negative associations, thoughts, feelings to a specific behavior.

I don't like this technique. I don't use this in my work with clients. What if you don't quit smoking? Then you continue the habit but feel sick all the time! :eek: I like to help people make the changes they want and feel GREAT at the same time. Reaching for something positive, not negative.

Have you considered thinking about what you do want, not what you don't want? How about linking positive things like health and control, freedom and relaxation to nonsmoking?

[lingo1]

Hi Connie,

Thank you for your reply.

I see what you mean about focusing on positives instead of negatives, I can certainly see how that might be more motivational.

To be honest, I really don't know much about this stuff, I'm just so incredibly sick of trying to give up, I've seriusly tried to quit over thirty times in the past few years, sometimes I am off them for a few days, the most I was off was one month.

I remember seeing something about this technique on a TV show where a lady wanted to stop overeating and it was linked to the feeling of sickness and she was able to transform her eating habits, I thought it might help for me to quit smoking.

I've tried the "Swish" method from NLP but it didn't work for me, I've tried all sorts of different methods but I think that there is a desire on some level to smoke and that is what keeps bringing me back to them, even though I really, really want to quit.

Ok, I've just typed an article there, LOL, sorry :-)

I have come to realise that I don't have strong willpower and I'm thinking that some form of hypnosis is the best way to quit, so that's why I'm here.

Thanks :-0

[Connie]

Your thought is right on! Hypnosis is a powerful tool for quitting smoking. Read all about it--the power of hypnosis and NLP! (here on this forum) and you'll begin to see how easy it will be for you to do this!

[Poodle]

Humans do everything or not by strategies. What you are talking about is an "away" strategy. Remember the old saying: From the frying pan to the fire? Well, using only away will land you or them in the fire. You need a delicate balance of towards and away to make things work really well.

You could find out which way your client naturally sorts. Anchor one positive and one negative. It's called "Propulsion". There is always the away so the client does not slip into the old bad habits and there is towards to make the client feel fantastic for making the correct choice.

Why don't you attend a NLP training so you can really find out super cool things and have a great time too.

Be well,
Pood :)

[Don]

Hi, Lingo.

First, let me tell you that I really empathize with you. I can't think of anyone who hasn't tried and tried to do something and not succeeded. And the problem is that when a person tries something so many times and fails each time, that concept and feeling of being a failure can actually filter over into other areas of our lives, making us feel like we are failures in general, and literally cause our minds to work against us in trying to achieve other goals. After all, if we're a failure at X (or so our unconscious minds may think) it's also likely that we'll be a failure at Y.

My guess is that your working with the Swish pattern used it as if it were some sort of magic wand. In the hands of a trained NLP practitioner, it can seem that way. But that requires a lot of training and experience to make it seem that way.

Can going to an NLP practitioner or hypnotherapist help you? Absolutely. And even though you may not believe it, they can help you incredibly quickly. They can turn failure into success!

I'm not a NLP practitioner, but I can speak about hypnotherapy. As you wrote, you "don't know much about this stuff," and that's a great place from which to start! You also wrote, "I'm just so incredibly sick of trying to give up." Fantastic! What you need to know is that with hypnotherapy, you won't "try" anything. The word "try" implies the possibility of failure, and as they said about a certain flight to the Moon, "failure is not an option!"

With hypnotherapy we would NOT try to get you to stop smoking! Instead, we help your mind change from being a smoker to living life as a non-smoker. Non-smokers don't smoke out of habit. Non-smokers don't have a desire to smoke after meals. Non-smokers don't look to cigarettes as a way of relaxing. Non-smokers don't think about when they'll have their next smoke. Non-smokers don't suddenly want to have a smoke when they see others smoking. Non-smokers don't want to smoke when they smell tobacco smoke. Smoking simply ceases to be a behavior or something that is thought about. With hypnotherapy you aren't a quitter, you're a non-smoker. You are a success, and success becomes the standard in all areas of your life rather than failure.

So by all means, go to a hypnotherapist or NLP practitioner--I'm not talking about a workshop with 25-500 people, nor am I describing videos, CDs, DVDs, MP3s or any other solution--and change your behavior quickly, easily, and painlessly.

Good luck!

[Connie]

I'm still thinking about the "cake" issue here and how terrible that is. (My opinion!) I'm talking about the situation you describe, Lingo, where the woman is made to feel sick if she eats cake or thinks of eating cake.

That is so extreme, and nasty! Cake is a good thing! A pleasure, which can be enjoyed occasionally and in moderation. A person can enjoy that pleasure, AND attain a healthy, slim body. Telling someone that they should never EVER enjoy eating a piece of cake, at a birthday, a wedding, or ever, is abhorrent to me.

Plus, it may backfire and manifest in a new way. Ok, cake is out! I'm going to eat cookies instead!!! More cookies than I've ever had in my life. Oreos, fig newtons, everything!!! Are you going to sit with a client and associate unpleasant, horrible feelings to all the foods she/he enjoys? Absurd!

[John B.]

I'm still thinking about the "cake" issue here and how terrible that is. (My opinion!) I'm talking about the situation you describe, Lingo, where the woman is made to feel sick if she eats cake or thinks of eating cake.

That is so extreme, and nasty!


Perhaps the OP was referring to Paul McKenna's I Can Make You Thin series that recently aired in the US on the Discovery Channel. If so, what was done was not quite like the OP described.

First, McKenna emphasized that the technique was to be used to control craving so that when the client had a craving for cake she "could take it or leave it." He then had her imagine eating a disgusting mix of cake, worms, hair, etc. He then created an anchor for that image. Whenever the client had an uncontrolled craving for cake, she was to employ this imagery and anchor.

He then created a second anchor to the feeling of being in control and feeling good about oneself. The client was instructed never to use the first anchor without immediately following it with the second anchor. (Would this be an example of propulsion, Poodle?)

What was done here is far different than making someone feel sick when they eat cake. As usual, the devil ('s food) is in the details.

[Myhrrhliene]

Hi,

What you ask about is an NLP technique called anchoring.
But beware of unintended consequences.
for smoking,
do you want to peke every time someone lights up?
Even in a movie you're watching?

There are better methods.
That's why we so often suggest seeking out a professional for help :)

[Poodle]

In a simplified form the answer is yes. However, if you happened to watch the TV series it said 'FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY". Perhaps watching the show as a NLP Trainer is very much different from watching it as John Doe Public. One has to be in rapport with the client and pick and amplify the correct submodality, known as a driver. It's explained in either Time For A Change or Magic in Action by Badler.

I saw a different show from England too with ?? and she gathered up and mixed all the food/drink that subject had eaten in one day into a barrel having the person watch. It was most disgusting to see bags of sugar poured in. It certainly changed eating habits and the "subject" was made to exercise, walking at first, then to machines and finally the river. Amazing to see a lady row the river. The subject sure looked great when she had finished that therapy. 70 Lattes in one day is pretty much of an overkill in my mind and combined with a whole large carton of ice cream after supper every day?????

[lingo1]

Hey everyone,

Thanks a lot for all your help and advice, it's really appreciated :-)

I think I may have made the TV show in my original post sound a little worse than it was, it was some time ago and I can't remember it all but it sounds pretty similar to what John B. posted, it may have been the same thing.

I am not looking for a way to make myself sick when I think of smoking, I don't want to start throwing up or anything like that, I just want to eliminate the desire to smoke, basically when I think of smoking, be completely turned off by it.

What John B. posted about Paul McKenna doing, that sounds pretty much like what I would want to do, would I need to see a professional hypnotherapist or NLP practitioner to do this, or could I do it at home somehow?

Thanks again for all your advice :-)

[Connie]

would I need to see a professional hypnotherapist or NLP practitioner to do this

That would be the quick and easy and effective way! :)

Edit for additional comment in light of Don's post, below. His "do this" I'm quoting and responding to is his desired outcome, becoming a nonsmoker, not finding someone to accord with his "turn me off" idea.

[Don]

Lingo, I would respectfully suggest that you look at my previous post.

What you are doing, here, is basically prescribing your treatment. It's as if you called up a plumber and said, "I need a new sink because mine is leaking. Come out and put one in." The plumber comes out, examines the situation and says, "You don't need a sink. The problem is with the pipes under the sink. They're rusted through and need to be replaced." But your answer is "I don't care, I just want a new sink." And that doesn't make sense.

So let me be as direct as possible. Your solution comes from a lack of knowledge and understanding of the mind. As a hypnotherapist, if you came to me saying that this is the only solution you would accept, I'd tell you, "sorry, you'll have to go elsewhere."

You say that when you "think of smoking, [you want to] be completely turned off by it."

That means you still want to be thinking about smoking, minute after minute, hour after hour, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, for the rest of your life. If that's what you want, I have a better suggestion: take a trip to "Gitmo" and let yourself be waterboarded. They're both torture. And sorry, I'm not going to torture my clients.

If you go to a real hypnotherapist--not one in your imagination and based on your lack of information in this area--the goal isn't to "turned off" by smoking when you think of it. Rather, it's not to think about smoking at all. It's not to make you an ex-smoker with a one-day-at-a-time attitude, but a non-smoker who couldn't care less about cigarettes.

I imagine you have some friends who are non-smokers, people who have never picked up a cigarette. Ask them, "When you finish a meal, do you think about having a smoke and then feel turned off?" They'll say, "no, I don't even think about it."

Now ask an ex-smoker who has not gone through hypnotherapy, perhaps using drugs or just going cold turkey. Many will tell you, "I dream about smoking and fight it every day" or "It doesn't bother me until I smell a cigarette or do a certain activity which I used to love doing with a cigarette." It's daily torture, and I've know people who have consciously stopped smoking for years, and then when a particularly stressful event happens, fall back into smoking.

So it's possible that you can find a poorly-trained hypnotherapist or one just out for the money who will do it "your way." They will leave you in a state of anxiety and virtual torture until something happens and you start again. If that's what you want, more power to you and good luck.

On the other hand, if you want to be free from smoking for the rest of your life, let the experts decide on what to do!

Success with the pros or eventually failure due to acting on your lack of understanding, lack of training, and lack of knowledge.

Your choice.

[lingo1]

Hi Don,

Sorry, you're right, I don't know enough about this stuff to correctly decide what the best way forward is. Thank you for your post.

I have been researching hypnotherapists in my area and if I decide to go ahead with hypnotherapy, I will, as you say, let the pros handle it.

There is only one concern I have about your logic of not thinking about smoking instead of being turned off by it, does this mean that if I do happen to think about it (by seeing someone else smoke or something) that it will remind me and bring back the cravings?

The logic of asking someone who's never smoked if they feel like a cigarette after a meal isn't right, they haven't ever experienced it and have never developed an addiction on some level to it.

I understand what you mean by making some not think about smoking rather than them having to fight it, however, it's inevitable that the thought of smoking will enter my mind at some stage, by seeing others smoke, therefore I am asking if the desire to smoke is still there on the rara occasions that I would think about it?

I hope you don't mind me asking these questions, as I said I know very little about this and the hypnotherapy seems to be pretty expensive so I'm just trying to understand more about it before making a decision.

I really appreciate yours and everyones advice, thanks :-)

[Don]

There is only one concern I have about your logic of not thinking about smoking instead of being turned off by it, does this mean that if I do happen to think about it (by seeing someone else smoke or something) that it will remind me and bring back the cravings?

That's very true if you're an ex-smoker. A good hypnotherapist would help you become a non-smoker. There's a very big difference.

I'm not a race car driver. I have no desire to be a race car driver. Every once in awhile I briefly see some cars in a race on TV and think, "Wow! That's very kewl." Sometimes I even think about driving in a race. But then the thoughts pass without me going out and racing cars. How can I do that? I'm a non-race car driver. I might think about it, but then it just goes through me and past me with no problem.


The logic of asking someone who's never smoked if they feel like a cigarette after a meal isn't right, they haven't ever experienced it and have never developed an addiction on some level to it.

But that's exactly right! When you become a non-smoker that's the way you'd experience it.

I understand what you mean by making some not think about smoking rather than them having to fight it, however, it's inevitable that the thought of smoking will enter my mind at some stage, by seeing others smoke, therefore I am asking if the desire to smoke is still there on the rara occasions that I would think about it?

I see people smoke all the time. I'm a non-smoker (although I did smoke for about a year), so although I think about smoking, I have no desire to do so. Non-smokers have no desire to smoke. Ex-smokers are quite likely to have such a desire.

I hope you don't mind me asking these questions, as I said I know very little about this and the hypnotherapy seems to be pretty expensive so I'm just trying to understand more about it before making a decision.

Well, I can understand your concern. However, I would have to debate your claim that hypnotherapy is "pretty expensive," especially when it comes to smoking.

I don't know how much you smoke, but let's assume you smoke just one pack of cigarettes every three days. That's more than 120 packs per year. in this article (http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourHealth/HighCostOfSmoking.aspx ) the authors say the average price of a pack of cigarettes is almost $4.50. That means you're paying $540 a year. If you smoke more you'll be paying more.
But that doesn't count the price of ruined clothing.
That doesn't count the cost of cleaning.
That doesn't count the cost of burned furniture.
That doesn't count the cost of cleaning curtains and needing to repaint rooms.
That doesn't count the costs of lung disease and heart disease.
That doesn't count the increased costs of health insurance and life insurance.
That doesn't count the time missed from work due to diseases caused or exacerbated by smoking.
That doesn't count the effects on your psyche of people who look down on you for having what they consider a disgusting habit.
That doesn't count the times you're passed over for a raise because you smoke.

In 10 years, the costs, at a minimum, if you only smoke one pack every three days will be over $5,000 dollars.

So how much do hypnotherapists in your area charge?
How much money will you be SAVING over ten years if you STOP SMOKING NOW?
Isn't it better to INVEST IN YOURSELF rather than give money to tobacco companies?
Isn't it better to have IMPROVED HEALTH and SAVE MONEY in the years to come?

The choices you make now will effect the way you live tomorrow.

Good luck!




I really appreciate yours and everyones advice, thanks :-)[/QUOTE]

[Poodle]

As most know my next door neighbor died from emphyzema a year ago and it was a horrible lingering -- hospital-nursing home-home-hospital-nursing home-home. My best friend in the whole world is tied to an oxygen tank 24/7 and has to do all kinds of breathing medications twice a day and now (she didn't want to admit to me what it was and kept saying it was asthma) but at Christmas she told me the truth that it is emphyzema from the tobacco and now my best friend from high school is starting to recover a little from COPD and is on 2 liters of oxygen a day. She just quit tobacco at the age of 63. ALL OF THEM SAY THEY DESERVE WHAT THEY GOT AS THEY DIDN'T QUIT SOON ENOUGH.

It's your decision whether you want to be tied to a machine for the remainder of your life when a little older.

Me? Not "holier than thou". I smoked too but I quit in 1980 which apparently was in time not to have done permanent damage....not that many years had passed.

Had a client a week or two or three ago that a MD sent me as he just could not stop tobacco and had tried the "medical" means which just didn't work for him. This man was 35 years old and his lungs sounded worse than a 200 year old. Had a difficult time going into trance with that cough so I finally just gave up and did an instant induction.

Again, your choice and your money. Do with it what you will. How much are you worth to yourself and how much is your future worth?

I also noticed on the net that we have a "new" Marlboro Man -- the previous one died from lung cancer. This new one is being marketed in third world countries as most of us have figured out that it is a ticket to self-destruction and want no part of it so they are showing it in China, India, etc. where they hope to garner a large part of the population.

One of my favorite quotes is from Wayne Dyer -- "Having a smoking section in a resturant makes about as much sense as having a peeing section in a swimming pool".

Pood